357-SYNCPodcast_AnnePoirier

Jenny Swisher: [00:00:00] Welcome, friends, to this [00:01:00] episode of the Sync Your Life podcast. Today I’m joined by my new friend, Anne Poirier. She is a certified strength and conditioning specialist. She’s also a nationally recognized body image expert, certified intuitive eating counselor, and author of The Body Joyful: My Journey from Self-Loathing to Self-Acceptance.

With a degree in exercise science and over 30 years in health and wellness, Anne has turned her own recovery from eating disorders and body shame into a mission to help others find freedom and peace with food, movement, and themselves. A pioneer in the body nat- in the body neutrality movement, Anne’s insights have been featured in Shape, Women’s Health, The New York Times, Washington Post, HuffPost, ABC, Fox, CBS, and NPR.

Her major accomplishments include publishing The Body Joyful, Not a Fat Annie, and The Body Neutrality Playbook, and partnering with researcher Kayla Nuss on the No Way app, a body neutrality mindset digital app pilot. I’m super excited to have Anne here today. We had the chance to connect a c- a few weeks ago, and I could have just talked to her forever, so I have a feeling that’s how this podcast is gonna go today.

I told her that body image is something we don’t touch on [00:02:00] enough here on the show. We have before, and I’ll link those up in the show notes, but after 400 episodes it was time we come back to this conversation because, as you guys know, diet culture is a passion of mine, ending diet culture, and really helping women feel empowered to have the energy they’re meant to feel and to make their health and wellbeing about that energy and how they show up in the world for the people they love and for themselves Instead, our society tends to present a certain body image, right?

That there’s a certain physique or a certain look and feel to how women should be. A lot of times women will come on the show and they’ll say, you know, they’ll, they’ll share their story and they’ll say, “I always felt like I needed to be smaller,” right? As I raise two daughters of my own, I see this already at the age of nine in my, my oldest daughter.

You know, she’s very tall, and she’s already saying things like, “Why am I so much bigger than my classmates?” Mm-hmm. Right? So body image starts from a very young age. It’s all around us. We learn so much from our mothers and our grandmothers and the people who are raising us, but also just through society.

And I know Anne and I are gonna just, we’re gonna just get [00:03:00] so nerdy here with you guys today on body image. But this is a topic that I know I’ll be sharing out with all of my people, my community, and everyone else, because this is where it’s at, my friends. Like, even my ladies in their 40s and 50s in perimenopause, they’re struggling with this, right?

They’re like, “My body’s changing. I don’t know how to accept it,” right? So this is something that we’re just always going through, it seems like, so why not have the resources and people like Anne to really go to for understanding? ‘Cause when we know better, we can do better, and when we understand kind of that 30,000-foot view of ourselves, we can really start to step into that energy that we deserve.

So Anne, without further ado, I’d love for you to just tell my audience, obviously you have some amazing credentials. This is what you’ve dedicated your life work to. But tell us more about how you got here. Like, what is your personal story here?

Anne Poirier: Yeah, you know, Jenny, thanks for that intro and for everything that you just said, because it is so true.

Our culture has really, uh, grabbed a hold of diet culture, and our bodies need to be a certain way, and that’s basically how I grew up. Um, I was adopted into a family. My brother and I were both adopted, so we looked [00:04:00] very different from each other and different from our parents. And our parents, uh, were the type of parents who had a scale in the bathroom right in front of the…

You know, so you see it every day when, when you walk in. They weighed themselves all the time. Body image for themsel- for them, for them was important. It was important to be a certain size. And when you just said generation, it, it’s, it’s traveled down generation, and that is part of the mission here. You know, when you said, uh, “I wanna just kind of stop diet culture,” I’m right there with you.

I wanna do the same thing, because that’s… When we don’t feel good in our bodies, that’s the only thing that we think w- we can do, is that I must go on a diet so that I can look different, because if I look different, then everything would be okay. And unfortunately, that’s- That message is, has been, for lack of a better term, screwed up, you know, for all of us.

And so for me, real early on, uh, my [00:05:00] brother gave me a nickname. He was t- you know, tall and, um, thin and blonde-haired and freckles, and so we just l- looked completely different. Um, I was the opposite. My parents described me as stocky and sturdy. You know, the bull in the China shop, and chubby little thighs, and squeezing my cheeks, and all those kinds of things.

Not with any harm intended at, with, with the names and such. My brother, maybe that was, but there was for, with my parents, it was just this is how they described me.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: And I, and that was what really started kind of this thought that my body’s not the way it should be. And so it was really when I went to the doctor, it was right before junior high, and I got on the scale and the doctor looked me up and down, and then he, he wrote the number on a chart, and then he showed my mom where it was.

It was on a… You know, we had those little weight scales. Yeah.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: And I was on the top end of the chart. And, and he said to her, “You know, [00:06:00] you better watch what she’s eating. You don’t want her to gain any more weight.” And so boom, all of a sudden food rules changed at the house. Things were different there.

My brother could eat certain things and I couldn’t. Um, and it was, it was more proof that not only did I already think that my body was wrong, my brother has a nickname for me that made me feel the same way, and then now the doctors told me that. And so that happened right on the heels of going to get school clothes for junior high and not being able to fit in the regular clothes section.

And I remember distinctly traveling to the back of the s- the store to the husky section at Sears and having to find different clothes, and the clothes are different, and I don’t look like the other girls. I had a short haircut. Everything just kind of started to fall apart. And with that said, the only thing I knew how to do was try to make my body smaller.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: And at that time, this was in the, uh, and this was in the ’70s, um, and I just, I [00:07:00] dove into a diet, and my first diet landed me in the hospital with anorexia nervosa. It was just, just like that. Um, the messages that, messages that I internalized was that there was something wrong with me, and it all had to do with my body, and if I could just fix my body, then everything would be okay.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: And so that’s kind of what started this whole body shame cycle for me. My mother got me in, like, well enough to kind of get out of, out of the hospital and to start moving, moving forward. But I never lost the shame of my body. And so, so I was in this cycle of over-exercising, restricting, binging for 30 years.

L- like, most, much of my life. And now, you know, about 15 years ago, my body started to break down and I said, “I, I’ve gotta do something different. I’ve gotta figure this [00:08:00] out.” And that’s, that’s where The switch flipped- Mm-hmm … and things started to change for me.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it’s, it’s interesting because I don’t think…

I mean, it, your story I’ve heard in different ways from so many different women, right? I mean, um, I’ve had private conversations with women who talk about, like, how, you know, their mother or their grandmother who raised them, you know, always picked apart her own body, so then therefore they started to see those aspects of themselves, right?

Or, um, like you said, you’re seeing this in my children, who are on, like, the 97th percentile of their growth chart, right? And my nine-year-old’s shopping in the junior section because she no longer fits in the kids section, even though she likes Lilo & Stitch or whatever, you know? Like, we have to- Yeah, right

kind of grow up a little earlier than we want to. And so, um, this is something that all of us, I think every woman listening is probably nodding their head. Like, we are all in agreement that this is, this is what’s happening for, for all of us. For me personally, as you’re sharing your story, I’m thinking about my childhood.

I grew up in a really small town. I grew up on a farm. You know, I was a 4-H [00:09:00] girl. I, I played sports, and, um, I’m sure, obviously, that this, the body image thing was very prevalent. I was just so involved in what I was doing that it wasn’t, it wasn’t something that I thought about until I was older. Into my adulthood I started thinking, oh my gosh, like, I was around so much disorder that I didn’t realize it, right?

Like, my mom would eat a box of Cheese-Its in the afternoon, and then therefore she wouldn’t eat dinner because she’d say, “Oh, I had, I had, I had a snack earlier,” right? And it’s like- Yeah … all these weird things where you’re like, that you thought, you start to think that that kind of thing is normal because that’s what you literally grew up into, right?

And so when I went to college, I got into a sorority, and I’ll never forget the very first sorority meeting, you know, like, that we had. I showed up. We’re sitting in the formal living room of the sorority house, and the, the president gets on a soapbox about how the girls need to stop vomiting in the showers.

And she literally, that’s like the first meeting agenda item is she’s talking about, you know, we’ve got to stop throwing up in the showers and, you know, she’s… There were other things too, like stop stealing people’s [00:10:00] food in the fridge, and all these different things. And it was my first, my personal first moment of being, like, aware that this was like, oh my gosh, like, what are people doing, you know?

Like, what, it-

Anne Poirier: Mm-hmm …

Jenny Swisher: it hadn’t affected me in that way directly until I was around 70 other women in a house, and that’s when you really see it times a thousand, right? Right. And so I couldn’t unsee it, so much to where, and I, I think this is interesting and it’s very telling of my personality, I’ve had a lot of people tell me, um, just with what I do in hormone health, that they’re like, “Jenny, you’re a saver.

You wanna save people,” right? And so g- I, I went on to pursue, um, you know, a degree in English and communications. In my senior year I had to pick a thesis to write about and to study, and I s- I chose how women are portrayed in the media and how that impacts body image in women. And so it’s funny to me how- Mm

I was so passionate about that because for me it was a shock to my system. Like, oh my gosh, like I had known that that existed, but I didn’t realize how prevalent it was. And, um, that started this journey for me. And then when I got into health and wellness and fitness [00:11:00] later in my 20s, it was the op- it was, it was the same thing, but it was like women who, who c- basically thought they could eat anything as long as they worked out hard enough, right?

So I saw all different angles- Yeah … of sort of like orthorexia, anorexia, bulimia, but also just- Mm-hmm … a dislike of their own, but even at the very simple level, just a dislike of their body, right? You mean every woman can nod their head and say, you know, in order to go out of the house sometimes you change your outfit 30 times because you just don’t like the way you look in that outfit, where your husband just picks a polo shirt and walks out, right?

So- Yep. Yep. That’s so

Anne Poirier: true. So

Jenny Swisher: I think this is, we’re all nodding our heads here. So you’re the same way, right? Like, you had this journey and you’re like, “Now I have to turn around and help other people,” which is why you’ve gone on to write your books and why you’ve gone on to, to sort of forge this mission.

So you said something though that, that w- that I wanna touch on here, which is it sounds like you just came to a moment where it was like- Mm … this is no longer working. Like, how long am I going to hate myself? Like, how long am I going to live in this, you said 30 years- Mm-hmm … this diet culture that isn’t serving me?

So what was that pivotal moment like [00:12:00] for you? Because I, I truly feel that even though from the outside looking in we can see it in others, they have to see- Mm-hmm … what’s going on in themselves in order to say something has to, to work differently here. And for me, I teach, I try to teach the science of why what men do doesn’t work for women so that women don’t blame themselves.

So they’re not like, “Oh, you know, this is because I’m not working hard enough,” or, “I’m not restricting enough.” No, it’s actually that your physiology is different. Right. And I find that when women know that science, then they’re like, “Oh, this isn’t my fault. Like, maybe I should- Mm … listen to my female physiology instead,” right?

So there’s that angle. But I would love for you, ’cause it seems like you are much into like mindset and under- you know, helping women sort of create this awareness but then also act in that awareness. So I’d love for you to touch on that.

Anne Poirier: Yeah. Well, you know, the way we think about ourselves, the way we talk to ourselves, that impacts how we feel about ourselves, right?

Our self-worth, our self-confidence, and thus it impacts the behaviors that we have. And so I actually went into fitness because I thought that that was a [00:13:00] profession that would keep me. I had to be a certain way, I had to look a certain way if I wanted to, um, be seen in the profession. And so that’s kind of why I went into fitness to begin with.

And then after spending- Much of my life in that field, you know, so I spent 30 years in fitness. My body started to break down, so I had a, um, a knee surgery, you know, when I was in college due to, due to playing a sport, you know, ’cause the sport was gonna keep me in shape. And, uh, you know, y- I can track back all of the things that I did, right, to kind of continue this disorder.

And I actually went into the hospital to have a particular procedure. They were gonna break my leg and straighten my leg so that I could keep pounding on it And when they went in and couldn’t do the procedure because my, my n- knee was not… It was too bad. Like, like, “We can’t do it. That, you’re, we can’t do this because it’s not gonna matter.

Y- you’re just gonna need a knee [00:14:00] replacement.” When I came out of that surgery without the surgery that I wanted, m- and I was in recovery from that, I just… That was when I slowed down enough to start to hear my thoughts a little bit more, and I started to journal. And journaling over, and over, and over again almost the same things.

I heard myself talk over, and over, and over again in my journal, and I s- and I finally just, I think I got sick of myself. And I’m like, “I, I’ve got to do something. Like, this isn’t working.” You know? Talk about the definition of insanity. And, and it, something came to me that my mother used to say, and it’s very interesting, and I don’t know if I can say this on your podcast, but it’s, um, “Shit or get off the pot.”

Right? And that was k- it was kind of this moment where I said, “You know, I can continue to push and drive, but I land in the same place. Regardless of what my weight [00:15:00] is, I always hate my body.” Mm-hmm. So, like, something’s gotta give here. And that’s when I actually went back to school. So I went back to school for eating disorders, and I started to learn more of the science.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: And I learned the science around dieting and restriction. And then I’m like, “Why didn’t anybody tell me this?” Mm-hmm,

Jenny Swisher: mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: So I got very angry, um, because I had spent my life in that space, and that’s where, uh, everything started to, to turn around for me. Yeah. It was within the research. So I love the fact that, you know, utilizing the science and understanding, well, it’s no wonder I was doing this because, you know, this is the only thing we had.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah, yeah.

Anne Poirier: And, and now we’re trying to, we’re trying to change the tide and do something different so that we can have some different role models for our kids. Mm-hmm. If we don’t have any different role models, this same cycle’s gonna keep going.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I, I… Isn’t it interesting? Because, um, my last expert I had on to talk about [00:16:00] body image was my college, one of my college roommates, in fact, who’s gone on to do very similar work to what you’re doing, and she said the same thing.

She started to dig into the science, and you can’t unlearn it. You can’t… You’re like- Right … “Oh, wow. Actually, I think I maybe have been disserved here.” And also I’ve been, I’ve been believing false beliefs about what I should be doing. I mean, the belief of being smaller is a belief in itself. But also the belief that this is the way to be smaller is another problem, right?

And that’s-

Anne Poirier: Mm-hmm.

Jenny Swisher: I mean, I, I, you know, I have a background in, I spent 15 years in network marketing with a well-known health and wellness company, and I look back on some of my social media content from those 15 years, and I’m just like, “Oh, I wish I could take it all away,” because I didn’t know what I didn’t know, right?

Right. And I really did think that it was a matter of helping women just eat less and work harder, and that they could do it- Mm-hmm … and it was a willpower thing. And then when you start to learn that, oh gosh, no, actually, like, hormones are involved, and, you know, genetics are involved. Like, there are so many things here.

And, and once you learn that, you’re like, “I, now I have to shout this out,” because there are so many women [00:17:00] out there pounding the Orange Theory classes, pounding the elliptical, you know, binge-eating at nighttime because they didn’t eat enough all day. Like, that this is happening- Mm … on a daily basis times millions.

And I know- Mm … for me, in my community, when women come in and they, they do the education, which I, I feel like is just so paramount to, like, learning this is what your body requires. Like, your body requires all three macronutrients. Your body requires movement, but not to the point where you need surgery to do more movement, right?

Like, so- Right. So having those conversations about, like, this is what you really need, right? And this is what you sort of deserve to feel, really helps empower women to say, to have that moment that you had, right? To really hear their own thoughts. Mm-hmm. I will have women land in my inbox, way back, uh, probably five, six years ago, when we first launched everything, we, I was using home workouts, what, very well-known home workouts, and I was creating custom calendars for women to follow, because we were very into, like, cycle syncing at the time, and I was teaching women how to do that.

And when I would create a custom calendar, I would have women in my inbox, [00:18:00] dozens of women in my inbox, who were struggling because that calendar that I created that had extra recovery built in, it had extra flexibility, they couldn’t do it because it was not enough. Mm. They weren’t sweating enough. They weren’t pushing enough.

They weren’t checking the boxes. It wasn’t the right… You know, there was so much, I don’t wanna use the, this word on the podcast, but it was just mind games, you know, like, that women- Yeah … were going through. And, but the, the thing is, about when they would send the message to me, I tried to act as a mirror and reflect that message back to them.

So that, uh, in my mind, it was like, I can tell them, like, the scientific answer, or I can just let them hear themselves, right? Like, let- let’s let them hear themselves. So when they would message me the question, you know, “Hey, you know, my body’s feeling really run down today. I just… And then I looked at the calendar and it’s leg day.

Like, what should I do?” I would reflect back to them and say- So it sounds to me like your body is asking you for rest, but your mind is playing games with you [00:19:00] and telling you to follow a calendar. I’ll leave it up to you- Mm … with which one you listen to, right? And so having that sort of feedback for some women was like, “Oh, gosh,” like, and I would have people be like, “This is so…

Like, I can’t even believe I’m talking to myself about myself like this,” right? Right. And so, um, but yeah, we’re, we’re doing women a big disservice. I mean, thanks to women, you know, thanks to, like, Dr. Stacy Sims and others who I constantly credit here on the podcast, we’re finally seeing this conversation more and more, just like we’re seeing more conversation about perimenopause and, you know, hormonal changes that prior to now, it was just like, “Women should just deal.

We should just be crazy during this time of life. It’s just all we have. We don’t have research on women.” Now there’s women saying, “No, no, no. That’s not cool,” right? Like, “I don’t like feeling that way-” Right … “and I’m not okay with it,” and I think we’re finally starting to see a little bit of a breakthrough in diet culture too.

I, I really do. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I think we’re starting to see fitness companies like the one I was talking about fall apart. We’re starting to see- Right … women get smarter and say, “I’m not falling for this anymore,” right? Or, “I just don’t feel-” Mm-hmm. Or, “I’m in, I’m so burnt out I can’t do this anymore.”

Anne Poirier: [00:20:00] Right.

Jenny Swisher: Right? And so- Mm-hmm … um, yeah, so what, what do you think is the most pivotal, you know, message that you could give women who are maybe facing this? I mean, most of my audience is sort of in their 40s. They don’t feel themselves, right? Like, they definitely don’t feel like they did in their 20s and 30s. Their hormones are shifting.

They don’t know how to address this, and I try to tell them, “What you did in your 20s and 30s, maybe those HIIT classes or whatever else, that’s not gonna work anymore. It’s not gonna work for you anymore.” Right. “Your physiology is changing.” But how do we help women tap more into their own intuition? This is a big passion project of mine.

You know, I- Yeah.

Anne Poirier: Yeah. No, I think you’re right on the money. It is starting to tune into our own bodies and listening to our own bodies. If you see any exercise program, right, it tells you exactly what to do. “Do this many sets. Do this much. Um, at least this m- many minutes on whatever machine at this heart rate.”

Like, it tells you what to put your body through, and none of that has to do with anything to do with listening to your body. And the same thing around diets and, and diet culture. [00:21:00] It tells you what to eat, when to eat, how much to eat. Well, what about- What does it feel like when you’re hungry? What does it feel like when you’re getting full?

How do foods feel in your body? How do those particular workouts feel on your body? So it is really about starting to create a new relationship, and when we think about the biggest change that we can do is start to shift this relationship, not only with our bodies. You know, how do I shift the relationship with my body?

How do I start to see my body as the things that it can do rather than what it looks like in the size, size pants that I wear? How can I see food as fuel and for celebration and enjoyment, but… And then also how can I see exercise for function, for mobility, for independence, for mood regulation, for the, for the wonderful things that it does outside of body shape?

So it’s really this decoupling of a lot of the belief systems that we’ve been given around bodies, around food, around [00:22:00] exercise, around listening to ourselves. And so it is h- how do we step, step almost back from everything that we’ve learned and say, “Well, I, I’d like to experiment with just listening to me, and what does, what does my body like and not like and feel good doing and not feel good doing?”

That, that becomes the starting point, and the… Unfortunately, we’ve got that pe- I call it the peanut gallery in our head that’s gonna wanna fight back because, no, these are the beliefs that, “No, y- you’re wrong. This is what it’s supposed to be,” right? Like, it’s got the whip out saying, “No, this is what you’re supposed to be doing.”

And we have the right to question all of those beliefs. You know, we were just handed them. “Here, these, believe this about food and your body and exercise,” versus, “Wait a minute. Is that belief serving me? Not really, because I’m landing in the same place, still hating myself regardless.” Yeah. And so it is, it’s [00:23:00] questioning those beliefs and starting to tune in and be much more in touch with our own physical bodies.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you know, I’ve seen, I’ve even seen this journey for women where they do start to have this awareness, and they’re like, “Okay, I’m talk- I’m, I don’t like the way I’m talking to myself,” right? “I’m gonna make things change. I’m gonna start paying attention to this intuition.” And then I’ve even saw, you know, a year or two later we co- we come back into the trap.

Like, it’s like, it’s like we’re const- Mm-hmm … we can constantly be pulled back into the trap. You know, I know this isn’t something that we touched on, um, in the pre-call, but I’m gonna bring it up anyway ’cause it’s been on my heart to share, and I need to do more on this subject. But right now, the conversation in, um, the s- I’ll say in the health and wellness world, and in diet- Mm-hmm

culture world, ’cause they’re not the same- The conversation is crossing over though on GLP-1s- Mm-hmm … because there is benefit to GLP-1 for your health. Um, I’ve done… Actually, I can link it up in the show notes. I did a recent webinar with Dr. Page specifically to this, not just for weight loss, but just for c- cognitive health and heart health.

Like, we’re seeing a lot of benefits [00:24:00] to it. But we’re also seeing it being used in diet culture. We’re even seeing marketing companies right now, because of the lack of rules and regulations, they’re now, they’re now promoting them as weight loss tools. So we’re seeing this crossover, and it’s causing confusion.

Mm-hmm. And I see this confusion every day in my inbox because women are like, “Are they good for me? Are they not good for me?” You know, “What’s going on?” Mm-hmm. I can tell you what I’m seeing, um, that’s concerning me, and that is I walked into my daughter’s school a couple weeks ago, and one of her previous teachers was walking down the hallway and I didn’t recognize her.

She had lost so much weight in such a short period of time that I literally did not recognize her. She said, “Hi, Jenny,” and I turned and I was like, “Oh my gosh,” like I literally didn’t recognize her. And every time I’ve seen her since, she’s become smaller and smaller and smaller physically. Now, I’m not saying that there…

Th- like, uh, of course, like everybody, there’s not a s- a set body am- there’s not a set standard, right? Right. But what I’m seeing, though, is that, that women are using these tools as a tool, as they should be, but then they get to a point where they’re like, “Oh, I [00:25:00] like… I’ve lost 30. I like this. I like…” You know?

And there is a- Mm-hmm … dopamine-centered effect with GLP-1s that isn’t being… I, I’m just now starting to see it talked about, but it’s like a reward center of your brain that’s being affected by these GLP-1s as well. And I, I c- I am seeing women sort of overdo them, right? Like they start- Mm-hmm … to lose the weight and they, they go up on their dose a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more.

And all of a sudden, we’re like withering away because we have fallen in love with this process of becoming smaller. But that- Mm-hmm … now at the expense, most likely, of your metabolic health, right? Right. And so the reason I bring this up, and I’ll, I’ll do a deeper dive, you know, in the future on, on, on GLP-1s, but I just…

This is the newer thing, right? This is the newer- Mm-hmm … conversation, whereas maybe in the ’80s and ’90s it was the Atkins diet or it was, you know… It’s, it’s been something different, like keto and intermittent fasting. I feel like the fasting conversation has quieted now, and now it’s GLP-1s, right? So there’s always gonna be something.

And yes, there’s, there are health benefits. Trust me, I am a fan of GLP-1s in the right setting with the right doctor, doing it on a monitored basis, [00:26:00] doing it for, for, um, overall health benefit. But I’m starting to see this happen, and I fear- Mm-hmm … that this is, is something that we’re gonna be up against as well.

And so having your own intuition with your body is so important because if you go on that journey, you need to be able to have, I’ll say, accountability conversations with yourself, right? You need to be able to have true, honest feedback on how you’re feeling- Mm-hmm … and, and what that energy looks like, right?

Like, is it going too far or is it not going too far? Are you doing the lifestyle practices that really matter, right? And, and especially with GLP-1s. Are you, are you strength training? Mm-hmm. Are you eating enough, right? Because if we’re not- Uh, it’s gonna backfire eventually. We’re falling right back into that trap.

So I don- I know you probably weren’t prepared to talk about GLP-1s, but I just wanted to bring it up and say that this is what I’m seeing. This is what I’m seeing, and I’m starting to see women… Of course, you know, again, I came from a fitness background, um, a health and wellness company, and so I’m connected to a lot of women that are still in that space, and now they’re [00:27:00] even selling- Mm-hmm

G- GLP-1s. And I, it’s all over my newsfeed now of women just sort of injecting their belly with, with GLP-1s, like they’re trying to sell it. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s where I have a problem with it, right? Yeah. Like, I get it, and I get that it’s been game-changing for you, and I would love for you to sell it in a way that highlights the health benefits for people and that highlights the way that they can work with their practitioner to get the right bio-individual plan for them.

What I don’t like is when it’s pitched as the next thing to lose weight, so.

Anne Poirier: Right, and, and like, and, and it’s pitched as, um, the magic pill. Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s, um… And if you’re s- if you’re still caught in diet culture and society’s thin ideal, it is a very attractive mechanism and tool-

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm

Anne Poirier: to lead to, and I think you’re absolutely right. That’s what’s happening.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: I also realize, ’cause I’ve done a lot of the research too, I realize that for some people it’s a wonderful tool, and it can be really, really helpful. Absolutely.

Jenny Swisher: Absolutely.

Anne Poirier: Uh, it- one of the things that I do know with some of the research, and you touched on it, is this, the reward system- Yes

’cause it does hit the reward system of the brain, and it [00:28:00] also, like, quiets food noise. Yes. So if you’ve been somebody that’s struggled with food noise, you know, um, long, long history with yo-yo dieting, it actually quiets the noise, and you’re ab- you’re actually able to kind of be able to eat in a, uh, way that’s helpful for your body.

Jenny Swisher: Right. Right.

Anne Poirier: Uh, it, it is the, it is the effect of that, though, and, um, our culture is still driven on praising people for weight loss.

Jenny Swisher: Right.

Anne Poirier: And so that becomes a double dopamine hit.

Jenny Swisher: Yep. “

Anne Poirier: Oh, people are praising me now,” so oh, that’s addictive.

Jenny Swisher: Yep.

Anne Poirier: And so you really have to be working with a, a, a phys- um, a phys- you know, a physician- Right

if you’re gonna go on this journey so that you can be accountable for what you’re doing. The strength training, the behavior, all of those things are so important. Uh, and what I, what I, what breaks my heart is that we have just spiraled back [00:29:00] into, um, society’s th- thin ideal. That’s what I call, like, society’s thin ideal.

Like, this is the way you’re supposed to look. And- Yeah … and this journey isn’t right for everybody.

Jenny Swisher: Right.

Anne Poirier: But now all of a sudden that’s gonna start to take off in saying, “Well, just, just take the shot.” Mm-hmm. And, like, that’s not fair to people either.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: And so this, it’s Things need to still kind of play out.

But really, if someone’s thinking about it, why are you thinking about it?

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: And how is your relationship with your body? And taking the time to do the deep dive work around my relationship with my body and how I feel about it.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: Because what happens if, if weight loss doesn’t occur? Yeah. And is that like…

You know? So there’s just, there’s so much that goes- Yep … into this, and certain things are, that are, they’re contraindicated for. Yeah. So we wanna be aware of that, right? If you’ve had any disordered eating or eating disorder behavior in the past, this is not a good journey, because it, it [00:30:00] does activate those- Trigger

Jenny Swisher: that

Anne Poirier: habit loops. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And those, and those, you know, the neuropath- the neural pathways in our brain.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: And that’s why somebody can be starting, um, to feel, to feel better in their bodies regardless of their size-

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm …

Anne Poirier: and then all of those things come back due to just, you know, one triggering incident.

Yep. Because those pathways are so strong. Yeah. And those belief systems are so ingrained, and that, that is really where the work is, is, um, pulling those. I call it divorcing. You know? Right. Divorcing some of these things apart, you know? Right. Our worthiness as a human being has nothing to do with our weight.

Yeah. And yet our society has put them together.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s so good. I was thinking to myself like, okay, so what are ways that we can bring out the inner voice for women, you know? Mm-hmm. And I, I started thinking about myself. I mean- My struggle in the last, like, two to three years, um, has been with my chronic migraines returning, and my migraines have returned with vertigo, so that’s been super fun.

Um, we are [00:31:00] now, like, I don’t wanna say fully in control of it, but I’ve- I’ve- I’ve been, like, 80% better for the past, like, two to three months, which is great progress. But it has been a journey where, I don’t know if you’ve ever had vertigo or if anybody listening’s ever had it, but it’s debilitating to the point that, like- Mm-hmm

obviously you’re not driving. You’re most likely not gonna be working. And so you’re literally just holding yourself still. And- Mm-hmm … you know, it’s like your world becomes a lot smaller because now, you know, you’re like, “I need help to the bathroom.” And so- Right … so this is where- Right … here I am. And so I’ve had to really do a lot of inner work to, like, really regulate my nervous system and not spiral in those moments.

And so I had the ultimate test this past week. I had to go in for a lumbar MRI for something else, and they put me in the MRI tube, and I thought, “Well, Jenny, like, this is your ultimate test,” because I’m not good with small spaces. But I went through 26 minutes. I closed my eyes, I did my breathwork, and I was like, “This was ultimately the test of my own nervous system here,” because I was able to handle- Mm

that just fine. But going back to the vertigo, for me, I started listening to Nicole Sachs. Um, I love her podcast, and I’ll link it up for everybody in the show notes, and she does, it’s called The [00:32:00] Cure for Chronic Pain. And her whole system is built around journaling, and journaling- Mm … has been a huge, huge thing for me in that vertigo, um, debacle because on the days that I can do it, I can write down, like, how I’m feeling, and it almost helps me step outside of my body and really see- Mm

what my thoughts are. Like, why am I having a panic attack when it hits me in the morning when I wake up, right? Like, what are the things that I’m doing instantly that are exacerbating that panic attack, and how can I slow myself down and not have that happen? And I’ve gotten to the point now where I wake up.

If the room is spinning, I know what to do, right? It’s like, I’m like, “Okay- Mm-hmm … we’re gonna start breathing. We’re gonna slowly shift ourself up one inch at a time. You’re safe.” You know, I start talking to myself in a different way. I, I have to assume that this same practice of journaling could be applied here for a woman who, even if you’re listening to this and you’re like, “I don’t think this affects me,” trust me, every woman is affected- Mm-hmm

with body image. So it can affect you. And if you’re the mom of daughters, too, I highly encourage [00:33:00] you- Mm … to just do this, even if it’s just for a week or two. Write down, like, how you’re feeling about your body and about how you’re feeling about your energy, and maybe even some gratitude for what your body is doing for you, and it will shift- Mm-hmm

the way that you start to think about your body. Mm-hmm. So I wanted to bring that up as maybe my primary tool of what, what I do even at, just in my own, like, health journey right now. But I would love to hear, you know, your thoughts on that or other, other advice.

Anne Poirier: Yeah, it’s interesting ’cause journaling for, for me, I went through, um, with Morning Pages with Julia Cameron.

And the Morning Pages, one of her quotes on Morning Pages is, “We write first thing in the morning to catch our brain before it has our, its defenses up.” And I think that a lot for, for my own story, being able to journal in the morning brought up a lot of those negative, uh, negative self, my negative self-talk on myself and figuring out, well, now I’ve gotta figure this out because I’m doing the same thing.

So one of the tools that I use around body image, and it’s connected to this body neutrality space, is I took one of those big [00:34:00] huge poster, poster pieces of paper that you can stick on the wall, and I drew a, a line right down the middle, and I started to put my negative thoughts about my body and of myself on little sticky notes and put them on one side of the board, and I named it my mini-me, like that little mini voice in my head.

And then so I, I just started to do that for a while, and I had all these Post-it notes on this one side. And what that did is, like you just said, it take, it, it takes it out of my head and onto a board to realize that my thoughts are not me. They’re just thoughts that are floating around in my head. And then I, I created a, um, an alter ego on the other side.

Um, and I called it my maxi-me, and I’m like, “Okay, how do I start to counter these negative, uh, degrading voices on this one side?” And, you know, if you read about self-compassion, self-compassion is changing the tone, quieting the voice, and trying to talk kinder to yourself. And sometimes that just didn’t feel quite right to me, so I started to be more curious [00:35:00] about my body, more curious about my thoughts, and that curiosity started to connect well with things like, well, my stomach does digest my food, and my legs do get me to from point A to point B.

And so instead of al- instead of always looking at my appearance and how I hated what I looked like, which impacted how I felt about myself, which then impacted the voices about, you know, “Oh, you’re so stupid for doing that,” or all those other kinds of words and phrases that we use, and then trying to step outside of that and, and go, “You know, I’m really trying hard to change the way I’m, I’m talking to myself.

What do my legs do for me?” You know, body gratitude is one of the simplest tools to start with. Um, not always easy in the beginning, because if we’ve been hating our body for a long time, it’s hard to start to like it, but gratitude is a little different. Can I be grateful [00:36:00] for being able to hug my daughters, right?

I have two daughters, too, of which I did not do the best job, you know, role modeling for them. I’m trying to do a much better job now. You know, they’re adults now, but, you know, we do the best we can with what we know at the time. Yeah. But this release of, this release of the negative voice and trying to counter it with something that’s, that’s kinder, um, the tone is different, and then the strength of it is different.

But being curious, the, the curiosity, non-judgmental curiosity helped me a lot in this journey of trying to change the language.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: And then reminding myself of the things that I have gotten through, the hard times that I’ve gotten through, the things that I have worked forward- Yeah … and learned, you know- Yeah

to change the way that I’m behaving.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. That’s so good, and, and actually, it leads perfectly into kind of how I wanted to bring this all full circle, which is talking about our children, and talking about the, the next generation, and how we can help shape- Mm … their [00:37:00] stories differently, because if we’re gonna end diet culture, which is a mutual mission of ours, right, it’s, it starts- Mm-hmm

with us, but it translates. And- You know, we’ve had, like I said, I have two daughters, um, five and nine, and both, like, very tall, very, you know, like, I don’t know. We like, we like to eat in our family, right? So they’re just… Like, my- everybody’s always telling me. I remember being in college sitting in the sorority house one time and eating lunch and somebody said to me, like, “Wow, you al- you really have an appetite,” which is another thing that women hear sometimes.

And I was like- Mm-hmm … “Yeah, you know, I mean, I do. I like to eat.” It is what it is. Yeah. Um, turns out we should eat, like, as women. Yeah. It’s not just a man thing. Right. Like, we all need to eat. But anyways, uh, so we were on vacation, and my mom was with us on vacation. And so my mom’s 78. Like I said before, I think there’s, um, just a different generation, too, right, of just, like- Mm-hmm

mindset around, you know, she’s, like, the SlimFast generation, right? So-

Anne Poirier: Right …

Jenny Swisher: um, my daughter, my oldest daughter, is an athlete. She plays basketball and volleyball, and she’s, um, just a very strong kid. Like, just always has been. And my [00:38:00] mom, uh, said something to her. She was eating, I think she was eating a donut on vacation, and my mom was like, “Well, it’s a really good thing that you are so active, because you just eat.”

And then she made a comment, like, in that jest. Mm-hmm. And my daughter had never heard that before, because we don’t talk like that in, in the house, right? And so she, she was kinda like, “What do you mean?” And my mom was like, she just kept going. And I j- I said, “Ah.” I said, “That’s enough.” I said, “That’s, you know, we don’t need to talk that way.”

I said, um, “What Gaga’s trying to say, Ellery, is that you should eat this well so that you can be strong enough to play the sports you play.” And so it was, like, turning that around, right? But what’s funny is- Mm-hmm … a week or so later, Ellery, my oldest, started to decline, like, treats. Like, we would go out for ice cream.

“Oh, no, I…” She… And I was like, “No.” I said, “What’s going on?” And she said, “Well,” she said, “You know, why am I so much…” She started having these thoughts. And I’m like, “Where did these thoughts come from,” right? And so- Mm-hmm … and she would repeat things to me like, “Well, you know, I’m not playing basketball.” Da, and I was like, “No, no, no, no, no.”

Like, we’re not going down this direction from [00:39:00] one comment. Mm. One comment that was made. Right. That’s it. That’s all

Anne Poirier: it takes.

Jenny Swisher: That’s all it takes. And so we’ve had to have the conversation both me directly with both of our parents, actually, ’cause my in-laws- Mm-hmm … used to call my kids thin. Like, “They’re so, they’re so skinny.”

And I was like, “No, we don’t say skinny.” “Well, they’re thin.” I’m like, “No, they’re not thin.” Like, we can say things like- Right … strong, you know, fit, whatever. Um, and so had to have that conversation with my mom, but also had to have the conversation with my daughter. And I had to say, you know, “Listen, like, there’s a difference here.”

And, and I, I’m just honest with her. I’m like, “Mommy, what Mommy does for work is I try- Mm … to make women realize how strong they are and how they’re really supposed to love their bodies. And Mommy really, really cares the most about that for you.” And so I just am honest with them. Like, I, I’ll… She’s- she listens to me mostly at nighttime, like before bed.

You know, the rest of the day I get ignored. Mm-hmm. But at- Right … right before bed is when we have those conversations. And so I had that conversation with her a few weeks after that vacation, and I just, I said, “You know what? I’m just gonna bring it up.” [00:40:00] So I brought… I said, “You know, Grandma made this comment to you on vacation, and I don’t like that comment.”

Right? Yeah. “And that comment is the kind of thing that really never served Grandma, and it’s definitely not gonna serve me or you.” Yeah. And so just repositioning that and telling her that, like, “No, you… It’s, you exercise because it’s good for your body, and you eat because it’s good for your body. And those two things don’t have to be because of the other,” right?

Right. And so- Right … but it’s, like, having that constantly, right? It’s like, how do I break that generational, I’ll say, curse? But how do I empower her- Mm-hmm … to just be strong and just be who she is? Um, like I said before, I, I wasn’t around a lot of, like, disordered eating, so to speak, that I saw when I was growing up until I got older.

But I think about our kids now, this, like, this nine-year-old generation. They already care about skincare, you know? They’re already asking about makeup- Wow … and covering up their own natural beauty. They’re already asking about things that I wasn’t asking about until I was probably 16, 17 years old. And so how do we change this for our daughters?

Like, how do we [00:41:00] really adjust and change diet culture?

Anne Poirier: Yeah. You know, the, um, a col- a colleague of mine says, has this term which I really, I, I, I grabbed onto first time I heard him say it, and he said, “Habits are caught, not taught.” I mean, they are sometimes are taught, but I think this, how do we role model differently?

Yeah. What does it look like to role model differently? How can I be really aware of how I’m eating in front of my kids, how I’m talking to myself in front of my kids, how I’m, how I’m dressing, how I’m taking care of myself, what am I doing? And you did a wonderful thing by having those conversations. We have to set boundaries, to set boundaries for, um, and I do believe the, you know, this is generational.

Not just our, our parents, but our grandparents, and, you know, and it just keeps, it keeps going. And so being able to have some of those conversations with parents, and if you, if they can’t understand it, then having the conversation that you had to say, “This is, [00:42:00] this is what we’re, this is what we’re about,” and how, how can we look at our bodies as strong and capable and for all the things that it does, right?

The, uh, you know, the internal processing, the way that we communicate through our bodies, the way that we can tell stories, and our brain and our, how our brain works and how we think. You know, it’s, it’s linked together, and embodying that space- And one of the things that we know is that it’s all around us, and so it’s being more vigilant around that.

What are they taking in, right? And if we can curate some social media, if we can do some of those things, can be really helpful so that they’re not inundated with that. And to be able to start to empower their inner voice- Yeah … their own inner voice, so that they have the self-talk that they can start to utilize for themselves when things get hard when they’re not in the home.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: So that, I think, the, um, [00:43:00] one of the books that I’ve written, it, it was a book to my 10-year-old, basically, Not a Fat Annie, and it is about a fifth grader-

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm …

Anne Poirier: who gets bullied in school, and it is this, it, it’s the story of her, number one, buying into that and talking bad to herself, and then realizing the damage that that’s doing when she- Yeah

sees her younger sister do that. And so it is this kind of, this is where we can start to change the conversations that we have with ourselves, with ou- with our kids, and then empowering them to have the conversations with themselves. Here are some self, self-talk phrases that can help you when things get hard.

Jenny Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Anne Poirier: Or when you hear things from other kids that, that don’t make you feel good.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah.

Anne Poirier: So.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah, I love that you said that, and it’s, I love that you just said, too, that it’s, when you said that in, in the story, you know, sh- Mm-hmm … she sees that in her younger sister, and I was actually gonna call that out and say something about that as well, because-

Anne Poirier: Mm

Jenny Swisher: nothing will show you how you really think and talk to yourself until you have a daughter. Because [00:44:00] you, you start to notice, like, oh, gosh, you know, like- Mm-hmm … when I’m trying on outfits and she’s in the closet, there’s no more of this, “Oh, I hate the way this fits here,” or I, you just- Mm … you, for me, I’m like, it’s like this, she’s there now, and so it’s like, “Uh,” you know?

And she’ll say, like- … “Mommy, why are you changing again?” I just don’t like that. You know, I just don’t like that shirt, you know? But, like, I, changes my own self-talk because I don’t want her to hear any. But I remember- Mm-hmm … growing up with my mom in front of a full-length mirror, picking apart her arms, picking apart…

And when I see- Yeah … her do that, I emulate, right? I, that’s, that’s what- Mm-hmm … exactly what you’re saying. And sometimes it takes your own kid or a younger sibling for you to see exactly how you’re feeling about yourself. Like, you may not, you might be listening to this thinking, “No, I don’t, I don’t struggle too much with that.”

I guarantee you that if you had to put all your thoughts on paper, like we talked about, you, you would realize differently. Mm-hmm. The other thing I’ll say is, yes, kids mirror you. Um, not just what you’re saying, but what you’re doing and how you, how, you know, I’ve seen the posts come up. Usually in the summertime there’s this post on social media that goes around about wearing the [00:45:00] swimsuit.

Take the pictures, wear the swimsuit, right? Right. But also, I d- I wanna come back to what you said changed your mind for you, and it’s also what changed for me, and it’s also what’s changed for the women in my community, and it’s also what changed for the, the previous experts I’ve had on, and that is understanding the science.

Yep. And our kids can understand the science, too. Mm-hmm. My kids understand that we eat fat. We are not fat. Yeah. We eat fats. They can tell you wh- what their favorite fats are. My oldest will tell you that avocado and guacamole is her favorite fat, right? So we talk about what fats are. We talk about carbs.

We talk about protein. We talk about how we need all three of them. Right?

Anne Poirier: Mm-hmm.

Jenny Swisher: And my kid will probably be the kid that’s sitting, you know, at a basketball game eating snacks with people, educating people on their macronutrients. You know what I mean? And it’s, we start really simple. I mean, I mean, even as a toddler, we talk about these are the things that we want on our plate.

These are the things that help fuel our body. Um- Mm-hmm … and I think when we have those conversations, it makes it easier down the road, right? Right. Because when they have questions about restricting [00:46:00] or… My, my oldest asked recently, “Well, what is a diet?” Yeah. “Why is Gaga always talking about going on a diet,” right?

Yeah. Yeah. We had to talk about what that is, and I’m like, “Well, some people like to do, um, a magic pill. They think that by cutting out one of those things that their body needs, that they’ll lose weight. And guess what? A lot of times their body does lose weight, but it’s not permanent, and then they feel really bad because their body’s not getting the energy that it needs.”

Right. So when I position it like that for her, which is a very elementary way of talking about it, she understands, right? Yeah. And that’s the thing we didn’t get. We didn’t get that in our generation. Mm-hmm. Right. Instead, we just got, “Mommy’s drinking SlimFast for lunch, and this is what we do-” Right … “so that we look a certain way and that, so that we’re smaller.”

So it’s not just that kids mirror your activity. They also… Or they, what you’re doing, but also they, they wanna know. They wanna understand. Uh-huh. And it’s not, it’s not never too young to start.

Anne Poirier: Right. Right. That education is so important.

Jenny Swisher: And then finally, I wanna say this before, and I wanna point everybody to your books and all of your resources.

Um, for me personally, you know, things often come back to, um, I think this underlying tone that has been here this whole time, [00:47:00] is why we as women sometimes feel like we’re not enough, and that goes for not just our body image, but h- how we show up in the world, right? We are so hard on ourselves. We are the people who are sort of managing all the generations, right?

Like, my, I have a ni- 78-year-old mother and I’ve got a five-year-old child, and I’m in charge of everyone it feels like, you know, all the time, and my self gets put on the back burner sometimes. Mm-hmm. And when that happens, you know, we can start to see where we feel like, oh, we’re never doing enough, or we’re not showing up enough, or we’re not enough, right?

Our body is not enough. Right. And for me personally, and I, I know it’s different for everyone- Coming back to sort of spirituality and understanding that I am enough because that’s how I was created, and- Mm-hmm … um, telling my kids when they go to bed at night, you know, like, “Isn’t it cool that the God that made the stars and the moon and the Earth also thought it would be pretty cool to have you, too?”

Right? Mm-hmm. Like, telling them that, and sometimes we need that. Right. Sometimes we need to hear that, too. And so regardless of- Yeah … of anyone listening, your stance on [00:48:00] that, you know, for me it’s been powerful to say there is something greater than me that thought I should be here- Mm-hmm … and that thought that I was enough just as I am.

And so-

Anne Poirier: Yeah …

Jenny Swisher: journaling, gratitude, listening to your self-talk, um- Mm-hmm … how we teach our kids, how we emulate, how our kids emulate us, like, all of these things matter in changing diet culture. This has been such a great conversation. This is gonna be one that I- Yeah … I point people to so often, because this is where it starts.

People land in my inbox first because they’re unhappy with the way they look, and I always tell- Yeah … people, women come to me because of what they want, right? Mm-hmm. They wanna look better, but I ultimately give them what they need, which is the- Exactly … education and the tools and resources to feel better.

Yeah. So I would love for you- So they can understand it … to point people… Yeah, and understand it. I would love for you to tell people- Mm-hmm … you know, tell us… I, I have the links, so I’ll put them in the show notes, but if you wanna- Okay … tell people how we can find you, your books, your resources, and then we’ll go from there.

Anne Poirier: Sure. Um, you can find pretty much everything right on Linktree at Ann Poirier 11. So I’ve got pretty much all my books are right there. I have a free gift for your audience. Uh, it’s called Body [00:49:00] Confidence Unlocked: How to Feel- comfortable in your body regardless of size or, or shape or age. You know, just how do we feel at home in our bodies?

And I think about what you just said. I just wanna end on this kind of space where you are the only person that’s living in your body, you know? And you play the lead in your story, so how do you wanna, you know, how do you wanna play in your story, and what does that look like, and how do you wanna show up for the people that you care about?

So, um, free gift. I think you have the link for that, and then Linktree and, and the books are right there, too. They can find, find everything about me there.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. I love that. I love that. It’s how we show up for, for ourselves in the world, and I think about my grandma, who struggled so much with her body image.

Even into her 80s she was making comments- Yeah … about her arms and, um, she used to make… This is probably a, a horrible way to end the show, but I have to share it. She, she used to always say, “Well,” you know, she was always so concerned with how she would look in, in an open casket. This is so crazy, but this is what comes to my mind.

Mm-hmm. And she would [00:50:00] always say things out loud like, “Well, I guess it won’t matter in the end,” because, you know. So, and I, I, I will never forget that, because when I think about my grandma, I don’t think about what size she was. I don’t think about, like, any of that. I think about her amazing, you know, pork tenderloin and gravy.

I think about, like, the memories that I have with her. So this life is not just about how you look, my friends. It is about so much more. It’s about your relationships. It’s about your love. Um, so let’s make it about that, right? And it starts with that, that self-talk. So thank you, Anne. I consider you a good friend now, so now you’re gonna be one of my resources, uh, for all things body image.

I’ll be pointing people to, in your direction. So thank you for doing this. Mm. For showing up here. You guys, we’ll link everything up in the show notes. Until next time, we’ll talk soon. Take care.

[00:51:00]