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Jenny Swisher: Welcome friends to this [00:01:00] episode of The Sink Your Life podcast. Today I’m joined by Dr. Eric Osinski. He’s a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, and a certified functional medicine practitioner who’s been helping people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions since 2009. He’s the author of the book’s Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves Disease.

The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet and Hashimoto’s Triggers. He’s also the host of the Save My Thyroid Podcast and the creator of the Healthy Gut Healthy Thyroid Newsletter. He was personally diagnosed with Graves’ Disease, which I’m sure we’ll hear more about here shortly. And after seeing how well a natural treatment approach helped with his condition, he began helping others with thyroid and autoimmune conditions.

This is a topic that we really haven’t dove super deep into. We’ve done a few episodes on thyroid. But I’m excited to have sort of an expert here, not only from experience, but also in helping others as well. I love, um, when people take their own journey and their own struggle and they turn it into serving others, and I think that’s exactly what Eric has done.

So without further ado, welcome Dr. Osinski to the podcast. If you will, just share with my listeners a [00:02:00] little bit of your backstory, who you are and, and what you do.

Eric Osansky: Sure. Well, thank you so much, Jenny. And, uh, my background is a chiropractor and. Up until 2008, I was practicing just traditional chiropractic and.

Then I developed hyperthyroidism outta the blue. Um, of course we know it wasn’t really outta the blue. It took time for for it to develop, but nevertheless, it was a surprise to me. And, um, you know, I was just walking around our retail store, checking my blood pressure at one of those automated blood pressure machines, and my blood pressure was normal, but my resting heart rate was elevated.

And so I, shortly after that, I was, uh. Diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and eventually Graves disease and just realized that, well, I guess I was gonna say, I realized there’s so many other people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions, which is true, but I. Prior to that, [00:03:00] when I was diagnosed with Graves, I was my first patient.

Like I didn’t know really much about Graves Disease at the point, at that point, but I, as a chiropractor, whenever I attended continuing education credits, I would always attend nutritional or functional medicine seminars to get my CE credits, and I happens to attend a few. Uh, functional endocrinology seminars and, uh, they focus more on hypothyroidism just because there’s a lot more people with hypothyroidism.

But they did talk a little bit about hyperthyroidism and graves and some natural options. So when I got the diagnosis, I knew I was going to at least attempt a natural approach. Didn’t know how successful it would be, but thankfully it was, I was able to, uh, restore my health, uh, actually avoid the medication, which, uh, a lot of people take and, and some people.

Do need to take it, but I was able to take an herbal approach to manage the symptoms while address the, the cause of the problem. And then again, just realized that there are so many people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions. So, [00:04:00] uh, since 2009, which is when I’ve been in remission, since then, I’ve been helping many others with similar conditions.

Jenny Swisher: I love that. I love that thyroid is, is such an interesting topic and I’ve found that in working with women since, you know, 2019 or so on specifically hormones, that it’s typically underdiagnosed. Right? So maybe we should just touch on that for just a hot second as well. Um, modern medicine, you know, again, no shame against modern medicine.

There’s a place for it. But for me personally, I have also found more benefit in a functional approach to my health. Root cause approach, natural approach, whatever you wanna call it. But for a lot of women, even in my practice that I see alongside Dr. Paige, we see a lot of. Women coming in who are like, oh my, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen doctors already.

They say my thyroid’s fine. Right? And they, they even have history of maybe like mom having thyroid issues or sisters having thyroid issues. And they come to us and all they have is a TSH number. And, and we’re like, okay, has there, all we’ve really done is, is, is checked, like the main engine light. We haven’t [00:05:00] really gotten under the hood to see what else is going on with the thyroid.

So if you would sort of touch on, you know, um, TSH, maybe talk about that and talk about. Maybe why this isn’t being tested or why it’s being overlooked, um, in the medical space.

Eric Osansky: Great question. Um, I mean, you’re right. Uh, so many people have a thyroid condition but don’t know it because the proper testing hasn’t been done.

Uh, I mean, a lot of doctors will as part of a, let’s say a physical might do the TSH, which is thyroid stimulating hormone. But TSH is actually a pituitary hormone. It’s, it’s, so, it’s not, it’s as, as the name implies, thyroid stimulating hormone. It helps to stimulate the thyroid to make thyroid hormone. Or in the case of hyperthyroidism, we don’t want a lot of TSH, we want lower amounts of TSH.

So the problem is when, well, I mean, one of the big problems is that many doctors pay attention to the lab reference ranges and. The lab reference ranges are way [00:06:00] too broad, so for example. From a functional medicine standpoint, we like to see TSH between one and two, maybe even like between one and 1.5, like a tighter range.

Whereas the labs, many labs go up to 4.5 or five. And so if someone has a TSH of let’s say three or. Four. Um, many medical doctors will say everything’s fine. Your TSH is within the range. Um, they won’t even mention it’s on the higher side of the range. Um, but it goes beyond that because most cases of, and we’re talking more about hypothyroidism here ’cause it’s more common, and a lot more people with hypothyroidism get undiagnosed.

Um, but in the case of hypothyroidism, most cases are Hashimoto’s, which is actually autoimmune. And so we can make the argument that should, they should be looking at the antibodies first because the antibodies develop before the impact it has on the TSH and the thyroid hormones. But many will, would just look at [00:07:00] that TSH.

And maybe again, if it’s a three, 3.5, a four, be like, uh, don’t worry about it. Or maybe they would say, let’s keep an eye on it. Maybe we will just do a retest a year from now. But if they looked at the antibodies and then if the antibodies were elevated, they’d realize, okay, this person has, has the antibodies for Hashimoto’s.

And then on top of that probably would be a good idea to look at the actual thyroid hormones and see what the hormones look like. The T three T four. There’s reverse T three, which plays a role. I mean, in some cases, especially with hypothyroidism, Hashimoto’s, um, could provide some value, but yeah, they don’t do enough testing and yeah, the, they rely, most do, who do any type of thyroid testing, they’ll just do the TSH, sometimes the T four.

Um, but many times they won’t even look at those antibodies.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting. I always like to use the analogy of like, you know. A house on fire, right? So a lot of times I find that in, in modern medicine, they wait until your house is [00:08:00] fully on fire before trying to extinguish the flames.

And in functional medicine, a lot of times we’re looking to see, okay, where are the newspapers next to the matches? Like where, where can we look for a potential fire? And start to, to treat things early. Right? So if you’re listening to this, um, if you’re, you know, if you’re not getting anything tested beyond TSH, I fully do recommend getting a full thyroid panel.

Everything he’s mentioning here, T three, T four of antibodies. Uh, I’ll often ask women, they’ll say, oh, my T-H-T-S-H was fine. Right? And, and still it could be like you said, three or four or five. Um, and I’m like, oh, that’s not really optimal. Right? Normal is not optimal. But then when I ask them about antibodies, it’s never been tested, right?

Or these, these deeper in depth tests. So let’s kind of start with the basics here, because I think, you know, a lot of people, it’s confusing even for me. I always have to remind people, you know, TSH is sort of a backwards test, um, when, when it’s tested through blood serum and all the things. But if you could kind of tell us.

You know, you’ve mentioned things already, like Graves disease for you, right? Hashimoto’s being autoimmune. There’s over-functioning thyroid, under-functioning thyroid. So [00:09:00] kind of give us a breakdown of, of what the different conditions are. Um, I know I like to teach thyroid as the thermostat of the body, right?

Like metabolism. Mm-hmm. But you could kind of dive into, um, you know, what are the different conditions that we can see because it, it can be totally d like you could look at two people with thyroid conditions. They can be two totally different issues.

Eric Osansky: Yeah. So, uh, so hypothyroidism, we were just talking about hypothyroidism when TSH is on the higher side, and, uh, typically the thyroid hormones.

So again, T three, T four are the main thyroid hormones, at least the ones we could test for. There’s also T one, T two, which we’re still learning about, but can’t, um, can’t test for them at any labs right now. But, so with hypothyroidism, you’ll have elevated TSH. Thyroid hormones will be low. Sometimes they’re subclinically low, meaning they’re within their lab range, but on the lower side, like less than optimal, sometimes they’re overtly low.

Uh, and um, [00:10:00] hyperthyroidism is the opposite. Hyperthyroidism is when you have. Uh, elevated thyroid hormone, so, uh, high T three T four levels. And as a result, we explained how TSH communicates with a thyroid gland to produce more thyroid hormone. In the case of hypothyroidism and what hyperthyroidism, since you don’t want more thyroid hormone, TSH will be really low, many times undetectable because the pituitary is telling the thyroid gland, Hey, let’s like stop this production of thyroid hormone.

And then we mentioned most cases of hypothyroidism are Hashimoto’s, and that’s the same with hyperthyroidism. Most cases of hyperthyroidism are autoimmune graves disease. Um, there’s different antibodies associated with, um, both of those. So with, um, the most common thyroid antibody are, uh, thyroid peroxidase or TPO antibodies, which, uh.

Much more, well, more common in Hashimoto’s, but actually a lot of people with graves have TPO antibodies as well. Um, I didn’t personally, but [00:11:00] maybe according to the research, like maybe 60 to 80% of people with graves have elevated TPO antibodies, about 90% with Hashimoto’s have elevated. TPO antibodies, th globulin antibodies are more closely associated with Hashimoto’s.

Um, again, when you have. TH thyroid globulin antibodies or thyroid peroxidase antibodies, those are more closely associated with damage. Immune system is damaging different parts of the thyroid gland. With graves, you have thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins, which is the type of TS H receptor antibody, and.

The, and, uh, so with these antibodies, they bind to a, stimulate the TSH receptor, which causes the excess production of thyroid hormone. They could also, that thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins can attack the tissues of the eyes in some people causing a condition called thyroid eye disease, which is.

Actually com pretty common in graves. I mean it, thankfully it’s not severe in most cases, but sometimes it can be. [00:12:00] Uh, and then, you know, as far as the thyroid hormones themselves, you mentioned like metabolism. So they definitely play a role in metabolism. So we see a, a lot of people with hypothyroidism, since they have the lower thyroid hormones, lower metabolism, gaining weight, hyperthyroidism graves many times.

The opposite, the in increased metabolism. So losing weight, like when I dealt with. Graves. Um, I started out 180 2, which was high more than I wanted to be. I’m typically about 1 70, 1 65, 1 70. I went all the way down to one 40, so I lost 42 pounds, which is pretty extreme. Again, not everybody experiences extreme weight, weight loss.

Not everybody experiences weight loss period with graves. Some people actually get weight gain for different reasons, but the metabolism, the heart rate. So with hyperthyroidism, I had, I mentioned. When I took my blood pressure, my blood pressure was fine, but I had elevated resting heart rate, um, and with hypothyroidism [00:13:00] usually have the opposite.

The heart rate will be on the lower side. Um, cholesterol, high cholesterol could be a result of low thyroid hormone, which again, many doctors don’t look at that. They’ll just see the high cholesterol and say, yep, you need a statin. But maybe if we address the thyroid, you could fix the high cholesterol problem with hyperthyroidism, sometimes you see the opposite.

You see cholesterol too low, which again, some doctors will be like, oh, not a concern. It’s low cholesterol, but we need cho so we don’t want it too high. But cholesterol is also important for sex hormone, adrenal. Hormones. Um, the thyroid hormones that affect brain, um, the health of the brain, they affect bone density.

So what hyper, especially hyperthyroidism, it increases the turnover of the bone, which could in, um, increase the chance of getting osteopenia, osteoporosis, hypothyroidism, more likely to have a negative effect on the bone quality. So, yeah, I mean. Thyroid hormone, it affects every [00:14:00] cell tissue in the body.

And we definitely don’t want too much or too little.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great overview. So, um, my, my story and my, my listeners know this, right? I teach what’s called the four-legged hormone chair. So we talk about the four legs of the chair, one being thyroid, one being sex hormones, one being cortisol and blood sugar.

Right. And for me, like the weak leg of my chair has always been, um. Like my sex hormone imbalances, infertility, like struggling with that kind of stuff, which I know is not a frontline thing. Right. Probably all impacted by cortisol or, or something else. Um, but what’s interesting is I started getting involved in researching more and more about why progesterone has made such a difference for me with my migraines, with, with everything.

And of course, progesterone is a neurosteroid, right? So it’s not just a sex hormone. Um, but I started doing some digging and I, I got, I got involved with this, uh, this research group. Around progesterone. I promise this is going somewhere. And they were talking about, well, what’s your, what’s your thyroid?

And I’m like, well, I’ve had the, the full thyroid panel done. Right? We’ve looked beyond TSH, we’ve [00:15:00] looked under the hood, we’ve done all the antibody testing and all the things. And I actually was in, like, all of my doctors are like, I can’t believe that this, like, this is one of the most perfect, optimal, like thyroid pictures we’ve seen.

It’s like my one strong leg of the chair. Right. Um, but what’s interesting is when I started working with these researchers, they were like, well, you could be like, what you, what’d you call it? Like sub subclinical or, um, you know, hypothyroid. So one of the things that they had me do was like test my heart rate first thing in the morning to see what my heart rate was.

Are you familiar with these sort of like, subclinical tests that people can do in addition to blood work? Or is there any other, any other things that we should be looking for? Um, as far as symptoms.

Eric Osansky: You mean as far as, um, if someone’s subclinical or,

Jenny Swisher: yeah, or just are there any other signs beyond testing that thyroid could be an issue?

Eric Osansky: Well, I mean, the symptoms I mentioned, so I mean the, yeah, I mean the, the testing I think is always best to, to try to get a full thyroid panel with antibodies. But again, even before, like in the case, my case [00:16:00] when dealing with hyperthyroidism, I had the elevated resting heart rate. You know, I had the weight loss.

S which at the time I didn’t realize it was related to the hyperthyroidism because I was also do, trying to actually lose weight. And I was over training, which, um, what, not, not a wise thing on my part, but the, what hyperthyroidism I knew. Uh, I, I didn’t know I had hypothyroidism, but again, some, the, the elevator resting heart rate.

People who experience palpitations, if you’re experiencing a lot of weight loss, what, what, hypothyroidism, it could be a little bit challenging because there are a lot of things that can cause fatigue. A lot of things that cause, um, brain fog, which are some of the common symptoms associated with hypothyroidism.

What you know, so weight gain, fatigue, brain fog, you know, there are other factors. That can cause that as well, like adrenal imbalances and blood sugar imbalances that you just mentioned. So, um, so if someone is experiencing, uh, let’s say weight gain, fatigue, coldness is very common, like cold intolerance, [00:17:00] uh, again, things like that, they might suspect thyroid.

Again, it could be something else, but it definitely makes sense to do. A thyroid panel if you’re experiencing those symptoms. And similar, if you’re experiencing some of those opposite symptoms, high resting heart rate, heat intolerance, let’s say weight loss, doesn’t guarantee it’s going to be, uh, hyperthyroidism, graze, but again, makes sense to take the next step and get a blood test done.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah, good indicators. Yeah, it’s interesting because when it comes to, you know, a lot of women will come to me because they learn about cycle sinking and they wanna know more about that, right? And then we dive deeper into menstrual cycles and the reproductive side of hormones, which a lot of people have this misconception that that is hormone health, right?

And that’s it. And I’m like, no, no, no. We gotta look beyond that. We gotta look at blood sugar, cortisol, thyroid. Um, but when women ask, you know. There’s, so, there’s so much. Um, you, you even mentioned like there’s T one, T two that we don’t even know how to test for. Right. But with sex hormones, like good luck testing, right?

Especially with blood serum, like you could test five minutes apart and have two totally different numbers when it comes to [00:18:00] estrogen, progesterone, et cetera. So sex hormones are much more complicated. So, but when it comes to, people will say to me, well, how do I know that my thyroid testing’s accurate?

I’m like, well, thyroid testing through the blood serum is, is the gold standard. So that is, that is what we wanna do. Um, you’ve mentioned in your story, you know, about how you were able to sort of avoid some of the, luckily, like, avoid some of the prescription medications for thyroid by using herbs. I would love for you to talk more about that.

I know that in my, um, practice, I see a lot of women who. Maybe they’re put on, uh, pharmaceuticals or they’re even maybe started on like desiccated thyroid or something like that. But I would love for you to touch on kind of what you found and what worked for you.

Eric Osansky: Sure. So, uh, with hyperthyroidism, they’re commonly giving medications to block thyroid hormone production.

Uh. The most common in the United States is, uh, something called methimazole. Uh, there’s another one, propal IOL or PTU, which sometimes, uh, also given, and I mean, they definitely work. They, they, most people they [00:19:00] work. The problem is side effects are, are common with the Antithyroid medication. So I wasn’t opposed to taking the Antithyroid meds, but when I.

Took my CE credits, I mentioned those functional endocrinology seminars I attended. They, um, taught me about Herb, the herbs called Bugleweed and Mother War, which I’m not sure if you’ve heard of them. They’re not as popular as. Some other herbs like astro, ganan, um, you know, valerian and other, or more popular herbs.

But, uh, but Bugleweed is an herb with Antithyroid properties. Mother wor me, works more in the cardiovascular sym, um, symptoms. Um, and so when I took, I started with Bugleweed and I did notice that my heart rate was decreasing, uh, which was great. I was still having some palpitations, so I added the mother wart and that did further help.

And then it was. Validated when I did my first thyroid panel, and I did see some improvements and gradually, um, so, so it’s not like I took it and it was normal with the first thyroid panel, but between the symptoms and the blood test, [00:20:00] I knew things were heading in the right direction. With hypothyroidism, it’s a little, it is a little bit different because.

Thyroid hor, there’s like not a replacement for thyroid hormone. Now there’s different types of thyroid hormone. You mentioned desiccated. Um, most commonly what they give is levothyroxine, which is synthetic T four Synthroid, the most common brand. The, and I mean, some people do okay with that, but the, one of the issues is T four has to convert to T three and not everybody.

Has is able to make that conversion efficiently due to numerous reasons. And um, so if someone has just given T four and they can’t convert T four to T three, then again they’re probably not gonna feel great. So desiccated thyroid hormone is another option. Things like armor or NP thyroid. That has T four and T three, and again, the T one, T two that we mentioned earlier.

And so, uh, it’s again, a lot of people do better on that. There’s also like compounded thyroid [00:21:00] hormone. You could go to a compound pharmacy, get T four, T three, um, so there’s. There’s different options, but I mean, so there’s, like I said, there’s not a replacement, an herbal replacement for thyroid hormone.

But one thing is that not everybody needs thyroid hormone. Many times the doctor will just look at that. TSH put someone on thyroid hormone. And again, some people definitely need thyroid hormone, but just looking at the TSH alone won’t tell the whole story. And again, even if someone needs thyroid hormone, in the case of Hashimoto’s.

It’s an immune system condition, so you want to still do things to right, optimize the immune system.

Jenny Swisher: Right. Yeah, no, this, um, I’ve, I’ve been listening to a lot lately about this T three T four conversion and all the things, and it’s, it’s just so interesting to me that oftentimes it’s like, okay, we’re gonna base everything off this one test we’re gonna get, we’re gonna give you thyroid, we’re gonna give you medication.

And I so often see women who are like, I did not do well with that. Right? Or, I’m not doing well with this. And then you go on to see that, oh, there’s autoimmune here going on. There’s more, there’s more to the story that just hasn’t been [00:22:00] uncovered, so. Let’s, let’s kind of dive in a little bit more to, uh, this, I have so many questions I wanna ask you.

I think the best place to start is maybe just in talking about the autoimmune side of, of this. I don’t know about you, but for me, working with a a, a large sea of women over 40, we start to see. Autoimmune conditions become diagnosed. Um, we’re starting to see more. A DHD become diagnosed over 40. We’re starting to see a lot of things pop up now in the sort of the perimenopausal era.

Um, I, I follow Dr. Sarah Gottfried, who, uh, wrote a book recently called The Autoimmune Cure, and she is starting to kind of make these connections between autoimmune disease and maybe even childhood trauma and different things that are connected there. I’m not sure if that’s in your wheelhouse or not, but I would love to talk about just.

Maybe some triggers for autoimmune, like why is, first of all, why are we seeing this? What’s ha what is exact, what’s happening with the autoimmune side of, of thyroid conditions? And then also touch on like what those triggers might be.

Eric Osansky: Yeah. So I mean, great [00:23:00] question. So I mean, there there is something called the triad of autoimmunity, also known as the three-legged stool of autoimmunity.

And so in order for autoimmunity to develop. You first, you need a genetic predisposition, which, uh, you can’t change the genes, but you could change, of course, the expression of genes. And then the other two factors are more important and you can, um, control those. Which second are the triggers, which we’ll talk about exposure, one or more environmental triggers.

And then the third component of that triad is. An increase in intestinal permeability, which is the medical term for a leaky gut. And I mean as far as why so many people develop. Autoimmune conditions, not just Graves and Hashimoto’s, but there’s so many other autoimmune conditions. I mean, it’s a great question and I don’t know if we have the exact answer, but in my opinion, one of the main reasons is our toxic burden.

Just, I mean, that’s one of the things that have definitely changed over the last few decades is our world is more [00:24:00] toxic and um, and those toxins could. Um, I mean, first of all, they could affect the immune system, but then they also, a lot, many of these toxins are also endocrine disrupting chemicals too, so they could also affect the thyroid.

So all this plastic out there, the microplastics and um, and then. As far as these other toxins like glyphosate, which is the active ingredient in the herbicide roundup, disrupts the gut microbiome, which again, is part of that triad of autoimmunity. And so there’s a lot of things that disrupt the thyroid, disrupt the gut.

Most, most of the immune system cells are located in the gut, so you need to have a healthy gut in order to have a healthy immune system. So that, I mean, there are other factors which tie into the triggers that we’re gonna talk about. But I think as far as the increased prevalence now compared to 20, 30 years ago, I think again, just our toxic world is getting worse and worse.

And I mean, there’s certainly other factors, but I think that’s a big one. Yeah,

Jenny Swisher: yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s funny [00:25:00] how often now endocrine disruption is, is coming up more and more. We’re finally starting to see it, not just through the research, but, um, I was just sharing last night on a call that, you know, the number one allergen in my environment right now in the middle of Indiana, in the Midwest is part plastic particles.

Um, few search like pollen apps. Right now it’s plastic that’s in the air dominantly, so it’s, it’s, you know. Uh, I look at my daughters and I think I certainly, you know, I, I wanna make different changes, um, in our house and, and with the way that they grow up because I don’t want them dealing with, with thyroid conditions or hormone imbalances.

And so if we can control, control what we can control with EDCs, um, you know, we can, we can do our best. So when it comes to what, like what are your thoughts on this whole, you know, sort of trauma tie in to autoimmune or sort of the, um. I sometimes I call it fru science of maybe like Chinese medicine and the ideas of, you know, how this is all connected to to us and our emotional side.

I’d love for you to touch on that [00:26:00] too.

Eric Osansky: Yeah, I mean, trauma definitely could be a factor. Um, I. I had also, you know, you mentioned on Dr. Sarah, um, but also, you know, I had on the podcast Dr. Amy Pigon who focuses on trauma and, and you know, she mentioned how, again, it’s a factor in a lot, if not all, people with.

These conditions. Again, I’m not sure if it’s everybody or including myself that dealt with Graves if it was trauma. I mean, definitely there was stressors, um, both physical and emotional stressors. But as far as like trauma going back, uh, decades in my case, I’m not sure again. Um, but, but yeah, I mean that is, I would agree that is something that is overlooked.

And um, and yeah, I mean, I would say most of the triggers are overlooked because again, if you go to a conventional. Medical doctor, endocrinologist, they’re not gonna look at any of these triggers. So again, I’m, so, trauma is one. We mentioned the toxins, but again, there are there [00:27:00] the food, you know, that we eat, which I know could also tie with the toxin, tie into the toxins as well, because our food is toxic as well.

But then infections, you know, as well, could be a factor. So I, to me, trauma is definitely. A potential piece of the puzzle in some people. But I know, um, when the pandemic hit, uh, we had so many people come in with, with graves, uh, with the, the virus, and I mean the other viruses like Epstein Barr. So there are definitely other factors.

So, but tr yeah, so getting back to trauma, that could be a factor. And then other triggers, again, stress, uh, which could, may or may not tie into trauma with me. Physical trauma, um, physical stress. I was, again, I mentioned was over training and I, I’m sure that was a factor when it came to my adrenals, which I tested and my adrenals were in the tank.

My cortisol was low, my. ZHA was low. Um, again, infections like viruses, uh, certain gut infections, there’s [00:28:00] actually a number of studies showing a relationship between Graves, Hashimoto’s and h pylori. Now, correlation doesn’t always mean causation. Um, same thing with parasites. Just because you have parasites doesn’t mean it’s going to be the trigger.

But again, anything that negatively affects the gut can potentially. Be a factor with these autoimmune conditions, um, nutrients deficiencies, which aren’t really a trigger, but more of an underlying imbalance. But again, we’re not getting as many nutrients from the food that we eat, which is why in some cases supplementation is necessary.

But yeah, like. Food stress, chemical infection. I mean, there are so many subcategories under those and the nutrients deficiencies, but under those, there are so many, and, and again, trauma would be under to me like a stressor. It, it’s not exactly the same. And it’s not like you just block out time for stress management to overcome decades worth of trauma.

But, um. You [00:29:00] know, again, that’s where maybe like things like not only counseling, but nervous system retraining and other, um, um, you know, vagus nerve, uh, support might come in handy. Mm-hmm. But that’s what, yeah. All this is complex. People aren’t catching on. Yeah. It’s different. It’s not like celiac disease where.

Gluten’s a trigger with everybody.

Jenny Swisher: This is the thing to avoid, right?

Eric Osansky: Yeah,

Jenny Swisher: yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting. I interviewed somebody very, very early on the podcast, 300 and some episodes ago, and they, we, we talked about thyroid and one of the things that, um, she said was she made sort of this connection into the Chinese medicine philosophies of thyroid conditions and.

Um, I think the, I wrote this down while you were talking. She talked, I remember her talking specifically about this phrase, owning your truth. Um, that there’s this element of that, right. Tied into maybe, maybe childhood trauma or something that, that people often have to work through. I just interviewed somebody recently on the podcast where we talked about ayahuasca and different.

Different, um, types of, you know, psychedelic therapy for healing [00:30:00] trauma and, and, um, conditions of like autoimmune disease. And so this is all just so fascinating. I, you know, I, I, I listened to Dr. Sarah Godfrey and Mark Hyman and others. This conversation just keeps coming up this conversation of why is autoimmune disease happening and why are, why and how are we seeing these connections into trauma?

But you could also make that argument for everything else too, right? Like, I mean, none of us are trauma free, like trauma is involved in all of us. So, um. Yeah, I wanna make sure before we have, before we run outta time, that we do touch on sort of the stress component of this. ’cause again, making this full circle when we, when we’re talking about the average woman over 40, um, and you know, she’s entering perimenopause, her progesterone’s starting to decline, her menstrual cycles are shifting.

Perhaps autoimmune disease comes into the picture as well. But then you also have to throw in the fact that because of her sort of tr. Eventual transition into menopause. Her adrenal glands are starting to compensate more for sex hormone production, or they’re becoming a little bit more taxed from the, the stressors of just taking over that [00:31:00] transition.

Um, and so that’s a factor. But then there’s also other, we’ve, we’ve mentioned, you know, environmental factors of stress, um, relationship factors of stress. I think about myself over 40. I think about the fact that I have two young children and aging parents. You know, I’m trying to kind of wear the hats for everybody, as I like to say.

Oftentimes as women, as nurturers, we, we, we tend to put ourselves on the back burner too. So I would love to talk about this. Well, before I, um, hand you the mic, I’ll say that, you know, I tell my women all the time that like, if we were to turn that four-legged chair into a hierarchy, cortisol sits at the top, right?

Because a, a, a, your body wants to survive, has to survive first, right? So of course. Um, you know, sex hormones are never the front bowling pin as I like to tell people. It might be a signal, might be signs that something’s going awry, but we’ve gotta look up the chain to see what’s causing that. And a lot of times it does come down to our stress and cortisol.

So how does cortis, how do you kind of put cortisol and thyroid? How would you kind of describe that relationship? [00:32:00] Um, yeah, that’s probably the best way to ask.

Eric Osansky: Yeah, I mean, that’s, uh, another great question and, uh, you’re absolutely right. I mean, cortisol, you need. Healthy adrenals have healthy thyroid, a healthy thyroid need, healthy adrenals, have healthy sex hormones.

So I also convey that to my, um, patients all the time. But we, we spoke about, so one way that the adrenals and thyroid and cortisol relate to each other. We mentioned the conversion before T four. It’s a T three conversion. Now most of that conversion takes place in the liver. About 60%, about 20% takes place in the gut microbiome.

But cortisol also affects that conversion as well. So if someone especially has high cortisol, they’re stressed out. Cortisol is a chronically high elevated state that could diminish that T four to T three conversion. Um, and then just, I mean, [00:33:00] also. Cortisol, I mean, it’s, you need healthy cortisol. Again, you don’t want it too high, too low, but if you have.

Too much or too little. Little cortisol. Either one will cause a pro-inflammatory state dysregulation of the immune system, which could set the stage for autoimmunity. Also could have a negative effect on secretory IGA, which lines the mucosal surfaces of the body, including the gastrointestinal tract. Um, and it’s a protective barrier.

So if you have lower secretory iga, you’re more. Susceptible to infections, more susceptible to that leaky gut that we mentioned, which is part of that tri of autoimmunity. So, um, so that first one, the conversion of T four to T three, that of course is directly affecting thyroid, but those other two that I just mentioned, um, mechanisms are more of a factor with potentially autoimmunity by dysregulating, the immune system affecting that secretory IGA.

So, yeah, adrenals, without question, [00:34:00] you need healthy adrenals for a healthy thyroid. And, um, and one thing I should have mentioned earlier, which I didn’t, for those who I, I didn’t really talk about, T four, T three, T three is the active form of thyroid hormone. So that’s why T three is so important. So when we talk about T four to T three conversion, and most doctors.

Either just test TSH, or they might look at TSH and T four, but they’re not looking at T three, which is the active formm and the one that actually affects the cells. And so again, if you have that. High cortisol, um, chronic stress state that, and that’s affecting that T four to T three. Again, you’re gonna experience an all likelihood hypothyroid symptoms.

And if you go to a medical doctor, if they do anything for the thyroid, again, they might give more T four, which is not going to help. Uh, first of all, it’s not gonna help the conversion, but again, in this case, if you’re dealing with the stress, you obviously want to do things to. Um, improve stress handling.

Uh, I mean, just maybe support the adrenals. Um, definitely through food [00:35:00] supplementation. Sometimes obviously sleep is important, but again, many times I’ll just say take the T four.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I liken it to the, you know, the average woman who listens to me on this podcast or takes my courses is a woman who.

Um, believes that she’s embracing what I call the fundamentals of hormone balance, right? She exercises, she eats healthy, um, but something’s still off, right? Her check engine light’s slashing. Maybe she’s not getting the right guidance with the right doctor or, or whatever, but a lot of times what’ll happen is they come into my program and they’re interested in, okay, you know, how can I work with your doctor?

I, I think I need bio HRT, right? Like, they, they’re like, I’m in perimenopause. Like I’m, you know, doing a little research. I think this is what I need, and the conversation that I find myself often having is. Bio. I’m a huge fan of Bio HRT when it, when needed, and I use it myself, right? And so I’m, I’m not here to shame it.

But we can also use bio HRT to sort of bandaid some lifestyle, um, issues that could be really underlying a lot of things. And I say this from experience, having, having owned a [00:36:00] gym, uh, where I was teaching, you know, bootcamp classes twice a day and getting my own workout in and thinking I was healthy ’cause I was doing all this exercise, but essentially undereating and under fueling for my activity level.

Um, yeah, you know, I could go up on my progesterone dose and I could kind of probably fill that cortisol bucket. And, um, and feel better, you know, feel like a superhero until I couldn’t, until everything came ing down. And so, even, you know, my ladies listening, who maybe you’re in that period of life where things are stressful, your body is changing, maybe bio HRT is a solution for you.

We also have to look at those fundamentals. Right. And just as a refresher, those fundamentals are sleep, proper nutrition, exercise, bio-individual supplementation, and healing our traumas. So we’ve had a few of those pop up today in this conversation around thyroid, right? And so the same thing is true. Um, Eric mentioned that.

You know, thyroid can be a complicated topic, especially if you’re only getting that surface level test in your doctor’s office, right? Like you’re not going beyond that to talk about anything more complex. So it is something that sometimes requires a [00:37:00] deeper dive. It is sometimes something that requires you to become what I call more hormone literate about your own body and what’s going on.

And listening to this podcast can certainly help, help you ask the right questions. But at the end of the day, like. Controlling what you can control, right? And saying, okay, what are these fundamentals? Where am I? You know, be honest with yourself. You know? Are you getting the proper sleep? Are you getting good quality sleep?

Are you eating enough? Honestly, I find myself asking that question of women often. I don’t, I doubt you’re eating enough. You need one gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight. When I ask most women, they’re getting half of that, right? So when we do an honest assessment. Of where we are on those things.

Right. And just like Eric, perhaps you can be in a position where, through lifestyle, maybe through herbals, maybe through prescription, who knows? But like, whatever the case is, you can get back to optimal. Um, my, my best friend in college was hypothyroid, and her energy was so low all the time. Like she didn’t wanna get outta bed like she had dra, you know.

Drastic fatigue, um, all kinds of [00:38:00] issues. And so I got to see firsthand the impacts of that, right? And, and how it really affected her, her energy level. We don’t have to settle for a basic TSH test that tells some, tells us something’s off. And a doctor who just writes a prescription but doesn’t go deeper.

We deserve to go deeper on our health and to really live with maximum energy. So, Dr. Osinski, thank you so much for taking time today. Um. To, to meet with us. Is there any parting words? I, I would like for you to tell us, you know, where we can find you, uh, where people can sign up for your newsletter or by your books, but anything else that you wanna say before we close it today?

Eric Osansky: I think we, we cover the most important points. I mean, I do agree with you. Just, I’ll, I’ll finish up by saying I’m also definitely not against, um, bioidentical hormones, um, but. I agree with you, you need to like focus on the foundation. So if there’s one place your listeners could start with, it’s by focusing on the foundations.

You could, [00:39:00] again, a lot of the, a lot of your listeners sounds like Al already are, they’re already doing it, but if not, definitely clean diet. Uh, block out time for stress management, proper sleep, exercise, and yeah, we both sounds like we both overtrained in the past. Yeah. Um, ’cause definitely that’s something I did, but yeah.

And, and that also, I’ll finish up by saying that there’s hope, there’s definitely hope to, uh, restore your health, to improve your health, but you might need to go beyond visiting your medical doctor or endocrinologist.

Jenny Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. So good. So good. Okay. Where can we find your book? I will have everything linked up in the show notes, of course for everyone.

But if you wanna just tell us where to find you online, that’d be great.

Eric Osansky: Sure. So, um, I have a podcast, say My Thyroid, which you could check out by visiting say my thyroid.com, and clicking on podcasts, which is visiting your favorite podcast platform by books. Um, two on hyperthyroidism, one on Hashimoto’s.

Um, you could just find those on Amazon. Just, um, type, type my name, Eric Kansky, and then I have a newsletter, uh, healthy Gut, healthy [00:40:00] Thyroid, which you could, um, check out by visiting Save my thyroid.com/newsletter.

Jenny Swisher: Perfect. Well, we will link all of that up for you guys in the show notes. Thank you again for being here today.

Um, in the future, whenever I have thyroid questions, I’m coming to you, so be ready.

Eric Osansky: Well, thank you.

Jenny Swisher: All right, my friends. Thank you guys so much for tuning in today. Until next time, we’ll talk soon.