255-SYNCPodcast_KiyahDuffey

[00:00:00] Jenny Swisher: Welcome friends to this episode of the Sync Your Life podcast. Today, I’m joined by my friend, Kaya Duffy. She’s actually a doctor, Dr. Piadipi, and she is a celebrated nutrition expert with a PhD from UNC Chapel Hill. She’s also the founder of Kazingo, leveraging her 20 years of experience to parents toward fostering healthier food habits in themselves and their children.

[00:01:18] Jenny Swisher: As a mother of three and a globally recognized speaker and entrepreneur, she combines personal insight and professional expertise to help you transform your family’s relationship. with food. I know that most of my listeners are women, a lot of which are moms, and this is a topic that comes up often, right?

[00:01:33] Jenny Swisher: Especially when we talk about making changes when it comes to lifestyle and nutrition, for your own health, and how that impacts your family, right? And a lot of times women will ask me the question, Well, does this mean I’m going to be making separate meals for myself? Right? Like if I’m going to be following something different and how hard is this going to be, or I hear all the time from women, all my kids are really picky, right?

[00:01:52] Jenny Swisher: They only have like five main food groups. So I like to serve the whole woman on this podcast, right? Not just through the perimenopausal journey and through hormone health, but also her relationships, right? Her parenting skills, her, her marriage and relationship. Tactics too. So I’m excited to dive into all things nutrition with Kaya today and to really help you guys understand how to make this really a lifestyle, right?

[00:02:15] Jenny Swisher: This is something that I really feel strongly about. And anytime a woman asks me questions about kids and nutrition, I’m always like, okay, they can eat the same thing you can, and we can make this simple. So we’re going to help you make it simple today. Dr. Kaya Duffy, welcome to the show. If you would just share with my audience, you know, more about who you are and how you got to doing

[00:02:34] Kiyah Duffey: this.

[00:02:35] Kiyah Duffey: For sure. First of all, thank you so much for having me and your audience may be at a slight disadvantage here listening to me because I am also not going to give them permission to make separate meals for their kids. You and I are a hundred percent on the same page with that. And I think that it absolutely can be done.

[00:02:51] Kiyah Duffey: So yes, I, I have a doctorate in nutrition, Specifically nutritional epidemiology. When I graduated from college, I, I went to a liberal arts college, so I learned how to be a great thinker, but not how to necessarily do any one thing. And so when I graduated, I wasn’t quite sure what I wanted to do. My now husband at the time, um, Boyfriend.

[00:03:13] Kiyah Duffey: Is that a phrase we still use? Uh, we did some traveling and I, I read a book that, that completely changed how I thought about things and what I wanted to do. And that book was called Fast Food Nation. And it’s about the rise of the industrial fast food, Institution in America in particular. And after reading that book, I realized this is what I want to do.

[00:03:33] Kiyah Duffey: I want to help people have a different relationship with food. And so I went back to grad school and I studied nutritional epidemiology. And I was particularly interested in how dietary patterns, rather than an individual food or a single nutrient, Influenced things like health and in particular, I was interested in obesity and cardiometabolic disease.

[00:03:56] Kiyah Duffey: So diabetes and heart disease. And I, I spent years doing formative research that I was really fortunate to be doing that research at the right time when it was of, of a lot of interest to the public. And so my work, you know, as a graduate student and early career professional, I had the privilege of my work being featured in all kinds of media outlets, places like USA today and good morning America.

[00:04:21] Kiyah Duffey: And, um, my favorite place, Oprah magazine, you know, could not believe, And as I worked through that, it also provided opportunities for me to do things like work with with groups like the Pew Charitable Trusts or the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, where I got a glimpse of what groups were doing to try to impact, um, food policy, particularly as it related to kids.

[00:04:46] Kiyah Duffey: But the real turning point came for me shortly after, Graduating, getting my, my PhD. I had my first baby and six months after that, she started eating solid foods. And it was at that point that I realized that the habits I was trying to understand in adults and the habits that I was talking to adults about wanting to change things that they felt like, man, you know, I wish I, I wish I could do it differently.

[00:05:10] Kiyah Duffey: I wish I could do this instead of what I’m currently doing. I realized that I had the opportunity with my own kids to influence the development of more positive habits with them. That this was a time when those habits are formed and we have an opportunity, maybe even a responsibility to help our kids get the best start that we can.

[00:05:31] Kiyah Duffey: And so I started doing everything I could reading all the literature. I could, what can we do to help kids create healthy habits rather than get them started on some path? That as an adult, they may want to change. And so that has what I have been working to do since then. And that is what led to the founding of Kazingo and our first product.

[00:05:50] Kiyah Duffey: So our products are all designed around nutrition evidence and what we know we can do to encourage healthy habits for kids. So our first product is a spoon that is very Um, we have a lot of habits that are specifically designed to encourage self feeding, for example, we have plates and bowls that are all designed around encouraging our kids to regularly practice tasting new foods because again, there’s a lot of evidence that these are habits that lead to long term health and now I’m doing things like this, taking opportunities to come and talk to wider audiences about the connection between all of this and how I can with this experience that I have.

[00:06:27] Kiyah Duffey: Help other busy, health conscious moms, change their relationship with food so that they can develop the kind that they want for their kids as well.

[00:06:36] Jenny Swisher: Yeah. I love the way you said that because it is, I find it is oftentimes an adjustment we have to make for ourselves first, right? Before we can incorporate.

[00:06:43] Jenny Swisher: Different changes for our kids. I always like to say like kids are truly our mirror, right? So you really start to see yourself in your kids, right? You start to see different habits and behaviors and tendencies in your own children. And sometimes that is our wake up call of like, wait a minute, you know, this is, they’re seeing me do this and that’s why they’re doing that.

[00:07:02] Jenny Swisher: So I’ve done a lot here on the podcast, especially recently on the topic of body image. I have daughters. I have a three year old and seven year old daughter. And so I had some experts on here recently to talk about disordered eating and what we see in the U. S. right now as far as body image and especially with young girls, right?

[00:07:17] Jenny Swisher: And so I feel like we’ve kind of, we’ve, we’ve covered that subject. But it really is true that like the way we talk about ourselves as women is translated into how our children not only see us, but also the language that they use about their own bodies too. So I’m excited to kind of dive into this with you because.

[00:07:33] Jenny Swisher: I told you I’ve never actually ever 250 episodes in and we’ve never had like an expert in like kids nutrition and this this whole angle of like behavioral eating we’ve never had this approach before and it’s not it’s funny because I shared that I was going to have you on here with just my community.

[00:07:48] Jenny Swisher: And they were like, yes, I can’t wait for that. I need this topic, right? Because they are the moms who are making their own meals separately, right? Like they’re making tacos for the kids and then they make a taco salad or they make something different for themselves or whatever, or completely different, right?

[00:08:02] Jenny Swisher: Or they meal prep in advance and then their kids are eating something different. So I want to really dive into that. I think probably the best way to start is, can you just tell us, you know, what does a typical day look like for your family? And how is food addressed and handled in your household?

[00:08:18] Kiyah Duffey: Oh gosh, what a great question.

[00:08:20] Kiyah Duffey: So I have three children. My oldest is a girl who’s 15. I have a boy who’s 12. And I have, uh, my youngest, another girl is 11. So, We, since my oldest is in high school now, but throughout their child care and, um, elementary school years, elementary and middle school years, we make our lunches together.

[00:08:44] Kiyah Duffey: So food, from the moment I wake up in the morning, I am thinking about food in some way, shape or form for better or for worse. And so they, they bring their lunches and we have, you know, we have lunch boxes that we use and they take their lunches. Hurt in that process. They know they need to have a vegetable, they know they need to have a fruit, and they know that we need to have some kind of protein source in there.

[00:09:06] Kiyah Duffey: Sometimes, you know, the kids, they’re, they’re busy doing other things and, um, getting ready for school or finishing homework or whatever the case may be. And, and, and I pack for them, but they’re responsible for, for packing their own snack as well. And partly, you know, I let them make those choices. More so now than of course when they were quite young, but I, um, I’m okay with them making the choices that they make because we talk about this regularly.

[00:09:30] Kiyah Duffey: And because my husband and I have made decisions about what food comes into the house. And if it’s in the house, then it’s, it’s available to them. You know, um, we really limit things like sweets. I want them to enjoy sweet foods, cookies and cake and things in moderation, of course, and the way that we help to do that is that we tend to make those products on our own so that I’m not buying pre made food that has all of the other ingredients, but we’ll Bake a batch of cookies on the weekend, and then that can go into their lunchbox if they want during the week.

[00:10:02] Kiyah Duffey: My husband and I both have full time jobs and actually several, you know, we wear many hats in the positions that we have. And so dinner, especially as the kids have gotten older, has gotten a little bit more difficult to get on the table. But we eat as a family at least four times a week. Um, Sports, especially for my oldest, have started to get in the way of that happening as often as it used to when the kids were little, but it has been a priority for us in part because I know one of the best things we can do as parents is model the kind of behavior we want our kids to have.

[00:10:37] Kiyah Duffey: Everything from the way that we sit in and use utensils and, you know, sit at the table, put a napkin in our lap, you know, that kind of more manners type eating, all the way to how we serve ourselves on our plate, the way that we engage in conversation, all of that is a really important. opportunity for us to teach our kids about what meal time can be.

[00:10:58] Kiyah Duffey: I’m usually the one cooking because I like to cook honestly, and I’m often the one who’s made the plan again because I like to do that. I would say probably 50 percent of the time I’m cooking another 30 percent of the time my husband and I are working on it together. And then when I’m not able to You know, he takes over.

[00:11:16] Kiyah Duffey: He’s a fantastic partner. I just really like to do it. So I often don’t give him enough of an opportunity. Yeah.

[00:11:23] Jenny Swisher: Same here. I know my, my husband, well, actually he’s the grill master. So if we’re grilling something, yeah, he’ll take over the grill, but otherwise it’s up to me to decide what we’re having most of the time.

[00:11:33] Jenny Swisher: It’s interesting too, because I know, like I said, my, my kids are three and seven and Someone had told me a long time ago about these, these like child safe knives that you can purchase. And so we, we bought some of those a while ago from when my oldest was little and we still let the girls like, okay, we’re going to have a salad.

[00:11:48] Jenny Swisher: Like who wants to help chop up the lettuce and who wants to help, you know, like you said, pack your lunch or whatever, like the more they get involved, I’ve actually noticed the more willing they are to try new things. So

[00:11:57] Kiyah Duffey: absolutely.

[00:11:58] Jenny Swisher: My oldest just came home for the summer. She just finished the school year and one of her first things she’s already bored, you know, we’re like two days into summer and she’s like bored to tears.

[00:12:06] Jenny Swisher: And she’s like, well, I don’t want to eat the same thing for lunch every day. And I said, okay. So I took her with me to the grocery store and I said, well, you get to pick out what you want to try, right? She chose a dragon fruit this time and she decided she does not like it. So, but she’s trying different things.

[00:12:19] Jenny Swisher: And I, I want to come back to one thing that you said, which is just making sure that kids are aware. There’s always going to be a fruit, a vegetable and a protein. And one thing that I like to tell women often is again, language is so key around your food. And I know for us. I’ve really tried to teach my girls that, you know, we say things a lot, like we aren’t fat, we eat fat, right?

[00:12:39] Jenny Swisher: Like, so we eat protein, carbohydrates, and fat. And I’m just very, like, I don’t want to say scientific about it. Cause I’m not like, you know, textbook scientific about it, but I just want them to understand, like, these are all things that our body needs for different reasons and for, you know, as different energy sources.

[00:12:53] Jenny Swisher: And then we also talk about how the foods that are bright in colors are bright and vitamins and bright in those different micronutrients. Right. So I feel like. At least I’m doing my part in helping them understand that this is what we need and this is what’s going to always be on the plate, right? I have so many questions for you.

[00:13:09] Jenny Swisher: I hope we, I hope we’re able to talk, to touch on all of it, but , let’s start, with this idea of like raising healthy kids. Because I think there’s two different listeners listening to this, right? There’s one who’s maybe like I was, right? Like, so my journey with this, by the way, was when I was in college, I was like the world’s worst eater.

[00:13:25] Jenny Swisher: Like I was pizza hut every day, you know, we had pizza hut on campus. Like I was eating it almost every day for lunch. Like it was terrible. But also my digestion was terrible. My acne was terrible. I got my headaches, you know, everything was just not good. And then, uh, when I was introduced to, sort of a functional wellness journey for my migraines in my twenties.

[00:13:44] Jenny Swisher: This was after my husband and I had married. So we used to have like Ortega taco Tuesdays and hamburger helper, you know, we were really like eating out of a box. When I was introduced to a functional wellness journey and I started doing, you know, taking different natural supplements for my headaches and I started kind of realizing the role that food and nutrition played in my, my, my feeling and my energy.

[00:14:04] Jenny Swisher: That’s when I started to make changes. And so we actually did like a, it was like a three week, reset detox. This was way back, probably 15 years ago. And in that three weeks I had, my digestion was almost perfection. Um, my skin cleared up, like I didn’t have any brain fog. I had no headaches.

[00:14:21] Jenny Swisher: Like it was, my sleep was better. Like it was crazy. And of course, I’m a very black and white person, right? I’ve had people tell me this recently. They’re like, you don’t see the gray, like you’re either black or white. Right. So when I went through that process, this was probably age 25. It was like, oh, well, I feel amazing.

[00:14:37] Jenny Swisher: I’ll never go back. Right. So I went on the other end of the spectrum and I remember there was like solid two years where we called ourselves pescetarian. So we, we know there was no dairy, there was no meat, you know, and then slowly I started to see my iron levels fail and I started to just not feel so great.

[00:14:52] Jenny Swisher: So we went back to be, so I’ve kind of been in this evolution of even just discovering myself, like what foods fuel me and what foods irritate me and all those kinds of things. So, fast forward through all of that journey of myself and self discovery, we find out that my oldest is coming along.

[00:15:07] Jenny Swisher: Both of my girls were adopted. We find out she’s coming along about four or five months in advance. And all of a sudden I’m like, well, this is new, right? Like I, this is a whole new world. I started as an, so at this point I had become a nutritionist, I’d gotten really involved in fitness and nutrition. I look at the labels of like baby formula and I wanted to die.

[00:15:25] Jenny Swisher: I was like, this is awful. Like, I can’t believe we’re feeding our infants this right. And so I remember having like arguments with the pediatrician about formulas. I remember this being a whole thing, but I also, I was like, I also don’t want to be the mom. Who’s like the food police. Right. So how am I going to navigate this?

[00:15:40] Jenny Swisher: So there’s two different women listening. There’s the woman who has the really, really small children, and she’s able to really, I guess, grab hold of us now and decide for her family, like how are we approaching food? I love what you said earlier about you and your husband decide what food is coming in the house.

[00:15:54] Jenny Swisher: That really is step one. And I hear this often from women, like, well, my husband just goes and buys the Doritos or the ice cream bars or whatever. Right. And so it’s a struggle there. But then there’s also the woman listening who maybe has older children, 7, 8, 10 year olds, 12 year olds. It’s like, Oh gosh, like they’re a little too sugar addicted, right?

[00:16:12] Jenny Swisher: Or whatever the case is like, how can I now make changes for my family at this point? So if you could kind of just talk to us about this concept of raising healthy eaters from a young age, but then also what does that look like when you’re dealing with older children and you’re wanting to make changes for yourself as well?

[00:16:26] Jenny Swisher: Like, how can we do that then?

[00:16:28] Kiyah Duffey: Oh, I mean, there is so much to unpack in that question. Um, and I, a couple of things that you said really resonated with me that I think are, are very tightly connected to this idea, regardless of, of the age of your kids and, and the stage that you’re in, in terms of figuring out What eating well looks like to you and to your family and that is the evolution of discovery and what that was like for you, but this idea of an evolution.

[00:16:52] Kiyah Duffey: Um, and then to me also, you didn’t say it specifically, but you were alluding to it about What being mindful about how food coming into your body Affects you and I think those two things are so important here and they’re connected to you’re talking about language and the ability for language and using language to help yourself and your kids and also in the decisions that you’re making so Um, gosh where to start with this So I think with with young kids in particular, the conversations that you are having in the language you’re going to be using is a little bit different than with older kids, but it is still critically important and it should not be ignored or forgotten.

[00:17:35] Kiyah Duffey: Even if all you’re doing is explaining to them, look at the foods on your plate. Do you see, look at how, look at how orange this is, or look at the shape of this as they’re trying things. bringing their awareness to the texture in their mouth. All of this will help them become a little bit more mindful.

[00:17:52] Kiyah Duffey: Whether they can tie that idea to it or not, they will be able to start to make these associations themselves. And you will be helping them to realize what eating feels like to them. And something I’ve always done with my kids is ask them, what is your body telling you? Kids, when they’re born have an incredible ability to listen to their internal signals of fullness and, and hunger, but fullness in particular.

[00:18:18] Kiyah Duffey: And we are really bad as caregivers in being able to recognize those signals, particularly with our kids who are preverbal. And it’s, I mean it. Understandably. But kids know when they’re full and if we can get over ourselves and any concern we might have and trust them and continue to trust them, they are able to do this and to know when they’re full.

[00:18:40] Kiyah Duffey: And that’s really a skill we can give them and being mindful, teaching them about mindfulness and language that can help. You know, as kids get older than on the other end, and that’s where I am now in my own personal journey. My kids have more, likes and dislikes, they have preferences and they’re able to express those and they’re able to get their own food.

[00:19:01] Kiyah Duffey: You know, my, uh, my 12 year old, my son loves to take his allowance and walk down to 7 Eleven and get a package of Pop Tarts every once in a while because he. loves that. And we don’t have them at home. And I let that happen because I want him to experience the full range. He will often eat them and then be like, I don’t really feel very good.

[00:19:23] Kiyah Duffey: And I’ll say, well, that’s interesting. Now, you know, um, And it’s not something that he’s eating all the time. He’s an active kid. And we talk about, not unlike what you described, the entirety of what our bodies need to really fully grow. And that foods play different purposes. The, the, I don’t use the term macro and micronutrients, but the macro and micronutrients within those foods, they play different purposes for our body.

[00:19:50] Kiyah Duffey: And to really be healthy, we have to make sure we’re, we’re getting a variety. And I. Since my kids have been little, that has been one of my primary goals was helping my kids be willing to eat a variety of foods rather than any specific food or a certain amount of food. I know that if they are willing to try new foods and eat a variety of food that in the end that will have positive impacts on their long term health.

[00:20:13] Jenny Swisher: Yeah. I think that the mindfulness piece and just that connection to how your body feels is so key. Right. And my seven year old is very, very, has become very intuitive about that for herself already. We, we there, you know, we’re in the era of like birthday parties. So there’s like, it seems like there’s like a birthday every weekend and you’re like, okay, here we go again.

[00:20:33] Jenny Swisher: You know, eat the cupcakes and candy. Here we go again. But she is just very self aware or, you know, she’ll say like they’ll get like a little gift bag of candy or even like trick or treating at Halloween. And we don’t, you know, I’ve learned that we’re, you know, there’s two ends of this, but first of all, we do have dairy allergies in the family.

[00:20:48] Jenny Swisher: So we do have to avoid milk chocolate. Right. So that’s an automatic, no, that’s, you know, being removed. But for the other stuff, I’m like, You’re welcome to try it and see how you feel. Right? And that’s because here’s the deal. I can’t keep her. I can’t like, you know, keep her in like a little cocoon her whole life and be like, no, you can’t eat those things.

[00:21:05] Jenny Swisher: Right? Because then that’s going to translate most likely to like binge eating later when she has more freedom to do that on her own. Right? So it’s more about just how can I help her try things and then translate to how she’s feeling. And so it’s funny because recently I heard her say my youngest, my youngest wanted a lollipop.

[00:21:20] Jenny Swisher: And my oldest said to her, she was like, Sutton, that has red dye and red dye makes us crazy. So, and then my youngest one was like, Oh yeah, I get crazy. Right. So they’re making these, these correlations between like, Oh, my belly hurts when I eat 18 marshmallows or whatever, you know, they don’t eat that many, but you know, when they, when they eat something that, that triggers them in a different way, they know that that’s what it’s from.

[00:21:42] Jenny Swisher: As opposed to, I feel like there is just this world of children out there that are just living on constant sugar and. Um, really no micronutrients at all. And then they’re wondering why they’re dealing with maybe behavioral issues or attention issues or sleep issues or whatever the case is. Right. So I think mindfulness is, is so, so key in making that connection.

[00:22:03] Jenny Swisher: I also love what you said about talking about the different like colors in our foods and stuff like that. One thing that, recently we were on a trip and we were scrambling some eggs for breakfast and long story short, we had. Two different cartons of eggs that were delivered in our grocery order. One was like the Organic cage free whatever and one was just more traditional large eggs, right?

[00:22:25] Jenny Swisher: So we had, there was another family with us with two different kinds of eggs. So we actually, you know, we’re like, Hey, let’s show you something cool. Right? So we cracked the egg in the pan and we’re in my oldest immediately. It was like, well, why is this one yellow? And why is this one orange? Right? And so we had the conversation about, well, the egg yolk of the orange egg is just more nutrient rich.

[00:22:43] Jenny Swisher: There’s more nutrients in that egg yolk, right? So we’re able to just poodle things like that, that they like to kind of hear about and learn about, right? Is, is really important too. So I want to hear from your perspective. Because this is something that I think comes up often in my circles and it’s, I have so many thoughts about this.

[00:22:59] Jenny Swisher: I feel like I could do a separate podcast about just this, but textural issues comes up a lot, with friends and women in my community. They’ll say, you know, well, my son or daughter really has a lot of issues with, with different textures. I will, I’m eager to hear what you have to say. Um, but I also want to just quickly share an experience or one of our experiences with my youngest.

[00:23:20] Jenny Swisher: My youngest was born with a severe lip and tongue tie. And, I’m talking like leashed, like her tongue was completely leashed in her mouth. And I didn’t know, right. So we adopted both girls. There was no lactation consultant assigned to you when you adopt. So, and my oldest was a great eater. So we knew right away.

[00:23:36] Jenny Swisher: We’re like, okay, why is my youngest not latching onto the bottle? Why is she screaming during eating? Why do we have to bounce on a ball with a shower running in a noise machine in order to get her to eat? Right. So we started having these like stressful times and she was unhappy. She just was unhappy all the time.

[00:23:50] Jenny Swisher: And so. Um, I’ll save this for another podcast, but we ended up firing our pediatrician because it was a constant argument. She, she was like, everything’s fine. She’s fine. And we’re like, she’s only like 10 percentile. Like it’s not fine. And so we ended up working with a chiropractor and sort of different alternative medicine approach.

[00:24:08] Jenny Swisher: And immediately found out, right, that she had this, this like lip and tongue type situation. So at eight weeks old, we had her lip and tongue revised through a laser procedure. And we did all these different mouth exercises with her. We, we sent her in for myofascial release therapy and body work and weekly chiropractic.

[00:24:26] Jenny Swisher: It was a very daunting first four months of her life, but by the four month mark, she had gone from 10 percentile all the way up to like 40th percentile. We were seeing drastic changes. She was latching onto the bottle. She was eating, she was happy. Um, she’s now, I think, I think last time we checked, she was at like the 70th percentile mark.

[00:24:45] Jenny Swisher: So it’s just interesting because I think that, you know, I want to hear what you have to say, just behaviorally speaking, but I also just want to plant that seed for people too, that there can be some actual issues in there that can be, investigated through more of more of a functional alternative medicine approach, so it was interesting.

[00:25:02] Jenny Swisher: This kind of comes full circle because this week. naturopathic doctors who’s very into like somatic work. So she’s interesting. Her background’s in social work, but she’s also a naturopath. So she comes and she does like body work, but it’s almost like therapy at the same time. So she’s like doing cradiosacral work.

[00:25:18] Jenny Swisher: And yeah, I know I just sounded probably really confusing, but it’s awesome. Like it’s just a very down regulating hour for me. So this week I decided, okay, my girls are home. We’ll do two hours and we’ll let the girls go to it. And I’ve been talking to her about both girls and just, my oldest is very high strung, type A, you know, very reactive, my youngest is a, I don’t know, she may lead a prison gang someday, like she’s very rebellious.

[00:25:42] Jenny Swisher: And so, she worked on both of them, and she told me, she said, well, she’s like, this is without knowing anything really about Sutton’s background. And she said, she said, oh, she was very, very tight on her left side. And she said, I really believe. That she probably dealt with as a baby. And I said, yes, she, she was.

[00:26:00] Jenny Swisher: And she said, okay, she said, well, she’s very tight on the left. And she said that I was able to release it. And it’s very interesting because her toes spread on her left foot. She was like, really flexing her foot, like, as I was relaxing her. And, uh, she’s like, that should help. Right. So what I want to say here and how I’m bringing this full circle is we’re now, you know, we’re, we’re digging into having this with both girls, like, not just when I do it twice a month, but she’s going to come for them as well.

[00:26:26] Jenny Swisher: We have seen such drastic differences between the way Sutton eats. Not just as a baby with a bottle, but just with textural things, right? Like we have seen, she is so open to everything. She likes blackberries, raspberries, the seeds don’t bother her. She likes soft textures. She likes hard textures, crunchy textures.

[00:26:46] Jenny Swisher: And my oldest who we’ve been really like, like I said, very, she was always a good eater, but we were very diligent about just like making sure she was making the mindfulness connection and everything. She’s actually more picky than my youngest is. So it’s interesting how, just from a physiological perspective, like from an actual mouth structure, which I’ve had multiple experts on the podcast on that too.

[00:27:05] Jenny Swisher: , this is something that I want people to understand, like investigating the mouth can also be part of this equation. So, I don’t know if that’s what, how you would answer or not, because I’m sure you have some behavioral tips here, but I want to hear more about just this texture thing and how do you guide.

[00:27:20] Jenny Swisher: Parents do that.

[00:27:22] Kiyah Duffey: That that is fascinating story. Thank you for sharing. I love this idea of being an advocate for yourself. I think regardless of how you feel about food and whether this is something that you’re struggling with in yourself or feeding your family, uh, being an advocate for yourself and your health and your kids health.

[00:27:40] Kiyah Duffey: It’s okay to ask for second opinions. It’s okay to go outside of the traditional medical system. Sometimes that is what’s called for, you know, these kinds of Eastern medicine practices, they have been around for thousands of years for a reason. And yes, I’m so grateful that if my arm is slashed, uh, I have access to Western medicine and, and emergent care, but sometimes there are alternatives that really truly are useful.

[00:28:06] Kiyah Duffey: And I am a firm believer in those as well. So I, I would, I would second your, your advice to be an advocate for yourself. One of the things, and I have not read this literature extensively in a long time, but one of the things that I did learn in reading the literature was that kids, you actually have to learn how to manipulate different textures with your tongue when you are little.

[00:28:30] Kiyah Duffey: And being exposed to different textures is critical for learning how to eat. Quite frankly, how to eat solid foods. And so kids who are increasingly being raised on super soft foods or evenly textured foods, think pouches all of the time. And it just being something that is sucked out their tongue, isn’t actually getting the kind of practice that they need, manipulating different textures, experiencing those different textures.

[00:28:57] Kiyah Duffey: And physically forming it into the shape it needs to be in order to swallow it and digest it And I know that’s really sort of medical and seems kind of strange, but it’s one of the benefits I think to something like baby lead weaning not that you have to do it fully and I know that you know There are concerns about choking and that’s one of the things that can prevent parents from actually doing this But exposing your kids early on to a lot of different textures Is the key super important for helping them, um, you know, learn how to manipulate and use those textures in the long run.

[00:29:30] Kiyah Duffey: Again, I am not a pediatric dietitian, which may be really useful, especially if your kids truly do have something, you know, some kind of diagnosis or, or real challenge with this. But I, I think this is where. Again, continuing to offer and expose different textures for your kids, um, talking to them about that.

[00:29:49] Kiyah Duffey: Give them a heads up. Hey, this texture is like this thing that you’ve said you don’t like. Let’s try a tiny little bit of it. It’s almost like this, or if they really do have a particular issue with a texture, try backing off on that. And, uh, uh, There is something called chaining where you you kind of make these small changes from one food to another to another.

[00:30:11] Kiyah Duffey: And that ultimately will help them get to this, you know, whatever this problem food is. But again, I think, you know, I think we can, we can maybe downplay the importance of engaging our kids in this process. Really, I think, talk to them, get their opinions. Um, You know, they are learning and growing. They’re hungry for this.

[00:30:34] Kiyah Duffey: And the more we talk to them, the more their language builds, the more their self confidence builds, the more ability they, they have ultimately to, to be the kind of advocate we want them to be for themselves. We have them for what feels like a super long, short period of time in their, in their full lifespan.

[00:30:52] Kiyah Duffey: And if we can be the adults who empower them to learn how to do this. Whatever this is, um, but to be the advocate for themselves to realize how things feel in their body and make those decisions for themselves so that they can be the best version of themselves. Then I think we’ve won, right?

[00:31:10] Kiyah Duffey: We’ve done our job as parents. So behaviorally, they’re the bottom line to to your direct question. Is to continue to expose textures. And if you are at a stage where you haven’t done that yet, keep doing that. Be consistent. Even if you feel like you’re failing at it. Consistency is key.

[00:31:28] Jenny Swisher: Well, I actually have a good friend of mine who, uh, whose son was, did have like a diagnosis with something texturally with food and they were seeing like a pediatric registered dietitian and someone who was working with them on that.

[00:31:39] Jenny Swisher: And they would go weekly for these different appointments. And I know that they would try, they would try a food and if it was a no go, they would try the food in a different way. So it might be, but if they didn’t like the raspberry, they might blend the raspberry into a smoothie and then show him that you like the flavor of the raspberry.

[00:31:53] Jenny Swisher: So we just need to try it differently. So. I know that there are obviously experts and people that your family can hire, right? If you’re looking to really dive deeper, but I really would encourage you to investigate someone in the myofascial release therapy world, to just feel around, right. To do that sort of craniosacral, to work on, they can work on the palate.

[00:32:14] Jenny Swisher: I know the younger the child, the softer the palate. So the more they’re able to actually reshape it and help them with those things. I realize it’s, again, I realize it’s a kind of a frou frou thing. Actually, if you want to know the truth, the former pediatrician told me it was frou frou science and made up.

[00:32:29] Jenny Swisher: And I, so a year after we left that pediatric, um, doctor, I wrote a message to her team and let her know that Sutton was no longer in failure to thrive, that she was now 67th percentile and very happy. And it was all thanks to that frou frou science. So. Yes, but you know, yes, registered dietitians, people in the pediatric space, people, um, you know, who are able to help with this, but also just.

[00:32:54] Jenny Swisher: You know, again, like listen to the podcast episodes. I’ll make sure I leave a lot of the shout outs. I did a podcast with Dr. Michelle Jorgensen and Dr. Meghna Dasani, who are both functional dentists, and they talked about this being sort of a problem, an epidemic of small mouth syndrome. And it’s coming from these pouches and these softer foods that we’re introducing to babies.

[00:33:15] Jenny Swisher: Which are really affecting the mouth, which are then translating to, I can’t try these new foods because it doesn’t taste like that soft, simple applesauce you gave me as a baby, right? So there is something to that for sure. I want to, oh, go ahead.

[00:33:27] Kiyah Duffey: Okay. I, I just want to, I love this, this, this point that you’ve just made.

[00:33:32] Kiyah Duffey: I like to talk about the different role that, that evidence and advice can play in helping us to identify and achieve whatever our personal Familial health and nutrition goals may be for me. Evidence has helped me identify what those goals need to be, you know, again, taking the nutrition, nutrition science and saying this is where I know there’s good evidence that this can have a positive long, long term impact on my kids health advice.

[00:33:58] Kiyah Duffey: is kind of helping me think about how I’m going to achieve those goals. There are lots of ways I can get to a goal, right? And, and your advice and my mom’s advice and my best friend’s advice, they may all be different and they may all ultimately help me get to that goal. But what you just said, and what I think is the key point to this is, is running all of that advice.

[00:34:18] Kiyah Duffey: Through the lens or the filter of your values. You and your pediatrician did not have values that aligned. And because of that, it was really hard for you to follow his or her advice. And, and I have had advice given to me where I felt like That doesn’t, that doesn’t feel right. That doesn’t align with my values.

[00:34:38] Kiyah Duffey: And I, I won’t, whatever that habit, whatever that advice is, I can’t continue it if it doesn’t align with my values. And so I think that’s a really important part you just identified there. If you can think about those three things as a Venn diagram, it’s right in the middle where you’re really going to have the most success, especially because habit formation is such a longterm process.

[00:34:59] Kiyah Duffey: And so you’ve really got to have those three pieces. To align for it to be something that ultimately will stick.

[00:35:07] Jenny Swisher: Yeah, so good. It makes me think about the fact that, you know, and I hate it. I’m saying this with with all the good intentions in the world, right? But I hear this and see this so often, whether it’s.

[00:35:18] Jenny Swisher: Women and their own health journey or, in advocating for their child too. I see it in both ways. Right. So I just shared with you our story with Sutton, right? So it did take me saying, Oh, wait a minute. Like I’ve now had two or three appointments here. Um, I’m telling you something is wrong. She doesn’t like to eat.

[00:35:36] Jenny Swisher: She hates all of us. Like she’s unhappy. And I got to the point where it’s like, now, wait a minute. I think maybe like. I’m being told everything is fine and it’s not really fine. Like I need to trust my mom gut here and even just seek out a second opinion. Right. And then I also see this story translated in my own wellness journey and how many specialists that I have to see, headache specialists, neurologists, all the different things telling me, Oh, sorry, sister, you’re just dealing with headaches.

[00:36:01] Jenny Swisher: Until I finally said, like, wait a minute, like something feels off. This feels like nobody’s really helping me get to the root cause and everybody’s just really willing to give me like a pharmaceutical, right? So I don’t, I hate to use the phrase gaslighting because it’s such a harsh term, but it is so common.

[00:36:16] Jenny Swisher: And I, I literally hear about it every single day. I get a message every single day from women saying. My thyroid panel was totally wacky jacks, but the doctor says that they can’t, they can’t help me. Right. And it’s just, I just need to make some changes. And I’m like, okay, well, then you need a different doctor.

[00:36:31] Jenny Swisher: So I really, if anybody’s listening who is into, um, making those little giffies, you know, that are on social media, I need one of a woman just raising a white sign that says wrong doctor. Like, I feel like I just, I handed out left and right, but regardless of what it is, right? Like, you know, your child best.

[00:36:48] Jenny Swisher: You know yourself best, right? So I feel like self advocacy is always the running theme here on the podcast, but I just wanted to emphasize that regardless of whether it’s for you or your kid, right? I think it’s important to go with your gut. Even if it means a second opinion and going against what society is telling you.

[00:37:03] Jenny Swisher: Um, okay. So I want to touch on food sensitivities too, just really quickly before we wrap up. This is something that both of my children have dealt with. My oldest, more so than my youngest, we avoid dairy as a family. So I think I shared a little bit of my story. You know, I went through that, that three week detox.

[00:37:20] Jenny Swisher: I was like, Oh my gosh, like all of a sudden I’m regular again, my digestive food. System is working correctly. My skin cleared up. And at first I thought it must be all the animal product. And so, like I said, we decided we’re going pescetarian. So we were like almost strictly vegetarian with some occasional fish.

[00:37:35] Jenny Swisher: And, but then I started to see, okay, my energy levels were waning, right? My iron was dipping, like, okay, maybe I do need those team iron sources. Maybe I do need to go back to some animal product. And I learned quickly that the dairy was a huge component for me. It was backing things up for me digestively, it was keeping me from being regular.

[00:37:53] Jenny Swisher: I had a lot of belly bloat issues, again, the headaches. And so I just realized, like, I might not be like anaphylactic shock allergic to dairy, but I’m also just very sensitive to dairy, right? And it’s, it’s, I always say this, it’s so funny, like, I did a food sensitivity test with my functional doctor, this was years ago, and she said, wow, like, you’re really sensitive to dairy.

[00:38:13] Jenny Swisher: And I said, okay, well, I thought so, but this proves it. And I told my mom, right? So this is when I was probably in close to 30, I said to my mom, I’m like, Oh my gosh, like my food sensitivity thing came back. And the only thing I’m really strongly allergic to is dairy. And she said, that’s so funny. You were really allergic as a baby.

[00:38:29] Jenny Swisher: And I said, okay, well, I think that would have been helpful to know for the last 30 years. Um, so anyway, so, and there have been times where I’ve tried to reintroduce it with like a healthier whey powder protein, or, you know, like, you know, Greek yogurt. And it’s like, Nope, my body goes right back. It just doesn’t tolerate it.

[00:38:44] Jenny Swisher: So we noticed with my oldest and I won’t go through the whole story, but when she was born, she had issues. She actually didn’t have a bowel movement within the first seven days of birth. So she didn’t have the merconium, um, poops, I guess you’d call it like immediately, but then nothing for seven days.

[00:39:02] Jenny Swisher: And so we actually, you know, because it was an interstate adoption, we weren’t in our home state. We didn’t have access to our doctor. So we were kind of just. Emergency rooms was really all we can do. And so we took her in and they were, they were telling us different things. Like we need to test her for cerebral palsy.

[00:39:16] Jenny Swisher: We need to test her for all these different things that can be possibly linked to this. And I remember reaching out to my, my functional doctor. And I, as a friend, and I just said, listen, like, I don’t know if something’s not right. She’s not pooping. She eats fine, but she’s not pooping. And the doctor said, take her off the dairy.

[00:39:32] Jenny Swisher: We took her off of the dairy formula that they had given us in the hospital. And within 24 hours, she was regular again. And then of course, come back to that same pediatrician I’ve mentioned, poor thing. Um, and she, you know, she kept telling us, no, you’ve got to get her on the dairy. You’ve got, it’s like almost like, I don’t know what the deal is with American Academy of Pediatrics, like really pushing the dairy.

[00:39:50] Jenny Swisher: But they really wanted her on the dairy. So we tried her a couple of times on the dairy, just wasn’t going to happen. So we just made the conscious choice. Like I had been off of dairy for years. So therefore we didn’t really have it in the house. My husband would eat Greek yogurt and stuff sometimes, but we didn’t have it.

[00:40:03] Jenny Swisher: I’m like, well, my oldest isn’t tolerating it either. So we’ll just go without it. Right. So our whole family is dairy free. And let me just tell you guys, listen, everything has milk in it, everything has milk in it, and so we really do stick to the perimeter of the grocery store for multiple reasons, not just for by choice, but also because of those sensitivities.

[00:40:22] Jenny Swisher: So I would love for you to touch on whether it’s gluten, dairy. I know some are alerted to corn, eggs, right? Like there’s different food sensitivities out there, which could be again a whole podcast topic in itself. Um, because this is a funny side story. When my husband and I were in Italy, I had cheese there and had absolutely no problems.

[00:40:39] Jenny Swisher: So I’m certain that it’s a difference in the type of dairy. Um, and the differences in American practices for that too. So I would love to just hear, you know, how do you help your children navigate, food allergies? It’s a, it’s an issue for us. Cause like you go back to those birthday parties, every birthday cake is made with milk and dairy.

[00:40:56] Jenny Swisher: Um, so it’s usually we bring our own slice of cake or we bring our own cupcake, right? Which is fine, but as they get older, I’m noticing there’s a little bit of an eye roll, right? Or there’s a little bit of a, uh, Like I’m so embarrassing that I have to have my own cake or whatever. So I would love to talk through just, you know, what you would suggest for parents of littles with allergy.

[00:41:14] Kiyah Duffey: Yeah. My husband is allergic to soy, legumes, peanuts, egg whites. and has a gluten sensitivity. So I feel you there. It really makes it difficult. Um, and you’re right. The perimeter of the grocery store is where it’s at in terms of, you know, making sure that you can avoid those things to the best of your ability.

[00:41:37] Kiyah Duffey: Thankfully my kids don’t have any. I mean, thankfully it’s not, it’s, it’s my kids. It’s not something that I have to worry about so much with them. Um, I think it can, you know, I understand a little bit of their eye roll because it does feel like I am different than. And that’s hard as a kid, in any situation.

[00:41:57] Kiyah Duffey: I don’t know if talking about it as maybe their superpower instead, you know, if you can flip the flip the script on them somehow and say, you know, this isn’t about you being different by having you having this special, this, the special thing that you have and you get to have your own special cake, let’s say, um, Reading ingredient labels.

[00:42:16] Kiyah Duffey: I mean, if you’re really deal having to deal with this and really be super careful. I know it can be scary reading ingredient labels, you know, become as familiar as you can with what those ingredients are, how they show up a lot of them, things like dairy and soy need to be labeled. But, you know, things like hidden sugars, if sugars are an issue, you’re trying to avoid sugars.

[00:42:37] Kiyah Duffey: They come in so many different forms. The corn as well. I mean, the number of different ways corn shows up in our food in the middle of the grocery store is incredible. And so reading an ingredient label is going to be really important. Learning a few key things that you can cook that are easy to prepare, that are easy to maybe put on a Prepare ahead of time or have as quick snacks that you can go to so it doesn’t feel like it’s such a burden to be constantly making something that where you’re needing to be sensitive to these particular sensitivities.

[00:43:07] Kiyah Duffey: I think that can really help. Um, I you know this. I love the idea of this being an entire show. I should dig into and you know, increasingly we’re seeing sensitivities show up in kids or actual allergies. Some of what I’ve read is that they they believe now that there’s some connection to us avoiding those foods really early in kids.

[00:43:28] Kiyah Duffey: And that actually now the advice has gone back a little bit to say some of these we want you to introduce a little bit earlier and give your kids exposure to. Um, but I, it’s not, it’s not a body of literature that I have read in great detail lately. So I can’t speak to it from that angle, but, but I do think, again, it’s an opportunity For patients for consistency and for talking to your kids, you know, your body behaves this way.

[00:43:53] Kiyah Duffey: Frankly, I think we all, I don’t eat wheat partly because my husband doesn’t, it’s easier not to be at, at home, but I feel better when I don’t eat it. And we’ve had a similar experience with wheat when we’ve gone over to Europe, that the wheat there, it is a different strain of wheat. And my husband can eat it without producing the same kind of outcomes that it does here in the States.

[00:44:14] Kiyah Duffey: Um, Yeah. This is where that trial and error comes in. Right. And really it evolves. It’s also evolved for me as I’ve gotten older. And so, you know, it would be so great. I think it’s one of the things we all hope for with nutrition is that we can have that one diet, that one food that like, this is it.

[00:44:33] Kiyah Duffey: If you do this, you will be healthy and feel great. And the thing is, we are all different. And food impacts us all differently. And that, that means our kids and it does produce a challenge when you have a family. But again, thinking about meals that can be flexible so that you can, you know, some people can have their cheese and others can leave it off.

[00:44:53] Kiyah Duffey: That’s one thing that, that we definitely find that helps.

[00:44:56] Jenny Swisher: Yeah. It’s interesting because I just, I think a lot of it comes down to just like what society understands about food, which is very little, um, you know, and I know for my oldest, we’ve really had to advocate for her in school settings and even in preschool and stuff like that.

[00:45:10] Jenny Swisher: Right. And just, and it’s just easier for us. Again, I kind of come back to that. I’m very black or white, so it’s easier to just for me to just be, no, this is the way it is. But, you know, we’ve had to just tell, like, what, whether it was play classes as a toddler, that we’re introducing bullfish crackers or grand crack, we’d have to say, no, thank you.

[00:45:24] Jenny Swisher: Like, we brought around, um, and then the same thing for, you know, preschool and even now in elementary school, like, she takes her own snacks and every year we meet the teacher and we go through the, you know, we don’t do the school snacks. We don’t do the school food. We just bring our own. And there are times where she wants to try something at school.

[00:45:41] Jenny Swisher: And so we just tell the teacher it’s fine. It’s fine. She’s not an anaphylactic shock type, you know, Uh, child, but if she wants to try something, it’s fine. So long as there’s no dairy, right? And so it’s funny because we’ll get messages from teachers. This has happened multiple years with multiple teachers where they send us something and they’re like, is this okay?

[00:45:57] Jenny Swisher: It’s gluten free. And I’m like, well, I didn’t say gluten free. I said dairy free. You know, so I mean, even just, I think the average American’s understanding of food and nutrition labels is just non existent, right? I just had a conversation with my mom. The girls wanted to use, we use the primal kitchen ketchup.

[00:46:13] Jenny Swisher: So it’s just a different, Them as ketchup. Right. But like, if we’re traveling, whatever, like have a ketchup. And so my mom had ketchup in her refrigerator and she had bought, like, she thought it was the healthy kind ’cause it was marketed as no sugar added, right?

[00:46:27] Kiyah Duffey: Mm-Hmm. .

[00:46:27] Jenny Swisher: And so the girls were like, this is gross.

[00:46:29] Jenny Swisher: Well it’s because it had all these like artificial sugars in it. That’s right. Oh,

[00:46:33] Kiyah Duffey: and their tongue knows their

[00:46:34] Jenny Swisher: tongue knows it’s different. She’s like, well, I thought I bought the healthier ketchup. And I’m like, no, you’re falling for the marketing. Let me show you. So I turned around the bottle. We talked about like, okay, this is an artificial sugar, right?

[00:46:43] Jenny Swisher: It is an OL. It’s an artificial sugar. Um, and it’s better for you to just buy the regular ketchup, right? So I just think that it’s, it’s sort of just this, um, mindfulness gap or lack of education around nutrition. You figure doctors don’t even get education on nutrition, let alone, um, The average person, right?

[00:47:01] Jenny Swisher: And so I just think this is, so it’s okay for you to just say like, my, my kid doesn’t have that, or my kid brings their own snacks. And I loved what you said at the very beginning, because this is something that we do too. You said, you know, having cookies at home and those kinds of things. We bake, we almost always have something, whether it’s, I really like the Simple Mills cupcakes.

[00:47:20] Jenny Swisher: That’s what we have right now. We just made with the um, we have our own version of like gluten free, dairy free. Donuts that we cover in our own like dark chocolate, right? So we have chocolate chip cookies. We do those things, too. Is that like we’re saying no. But we have them on hand so that my girls are like, they want to take a cookie to the park.

[00:47:37] Jenny Swisher: They take a cookie to the park or to the birthday party or to whatever. Right. And it’s so we’re not telling them that it’s a no. It’s just this is a healthier option and they’re always available here at home and they’re able to make those choices. Right. So, um, all of this is such good stuff. I could talk to you forever.

[00:47:51] Jenny Swisher: So I do want you to tell us. more about because they go, you know, how can we learn more about that? And also where can we find you?

[00:47:58] Kiyah Duffey: Sure. Um, yeah. So, cause Zingo, cause Zingo kids. com is where those products are. They really are targeted towards the spoons are not your first feeders. They’re like, your kids are 12 to 14 months and they’re beginning to want to actually use utensils.

[00:48:13] Kiyah Duffey: That’s when those will really come in handy. We call them the nudge. Plates and bowls. They are gently nudging you as parents to remember to give your kids a little taste of something new regularly. So they get that practice. Kids, it’s a, it’s an opportunity for them to practice a food without feeling like it has to be their entire meal.

[00:48:32] Kiyah Duffey: That can often be overwhelming for kids when they are practicing or learning a new food. So all Kazingokids. com. My own website. I am new. To, um, to this space, my website will launch tomorrow morning, drkayaduffy. com. You’ll be able to find that. I did for this podcast, Jenny, and for your listeners, create a PDF.

[00:48:55] Kiyah Duffey: It’s 10 strategies for dealing with picky eaters, your toddler picky eater. I don’t love the phrase picky eater. And I, in the first page, first paragraph say, um, picky eater. It’s not a label that that I like. It’s not a phrase that I like. Uh, picky eating is a phase. It is not a type of person. Kids absolutely go through being choosy.

[00:49:17] Kiyah Duffey: That is a normal part of development. , but these are tips that if you’re dealing with that type, I also know it’s something that parents know, right. And that they struggle with. And if it’s something that your kids are dealing with, these are 10 tips you can use to try to help move them out of it.

[00:49:30] Kiyah Duffey: And if your kids aren’t there yet. These are also just great tips for how to encourage them to continue trying new things and to not be afraid of that process. and I can send the link to you, that’s just a bit. ly link, bit. ly, so bit. ly forward slash MyPickyEater. Totally, 100 percent free. Um, And that, that’s, that’s how I’m on Instagram.

[00:49:53] Kiyah Duffey: I’m on LinkedIn. I’d love any questions that your audience has. I’m happy to engage in further conversation offline. This has been wonderful.

[00:50:02] Jenny Swisher: Super. Well, we will link all of this up in the show notes for you guys. So you guys, you guys can access the. The free resource you can find here on social media. You can check out kazingokids.

[00:50:10] Jenny Swisher: com. I’m so glad that you reached out and we had this connection. We’re able to, to touch base here on the podcast. I know this is going to serve my mamas out there who are like, help me with my children. Right. And it’s as good timing when this launches, it’ll be summertime when we are. Gosh, I feel like I’m just living in constant dishes and it’s like, oh, look the kitchen again.

[00:50:28] Jenny Swisher: No one, no one prepared me for how much time I’d spend in the kitchen as an adult. So

[00:50:32] Kiyah Duffey: much time. Yeah. So much time in the kitchen.

[00:50:34] Jenny Swisher: Like my mom was actually a whole math teacher way back in the day. Like, I mean, why did that go away? I don’t know why. Really, truly. That’s like the one thing we need.

[00:50:43] Kiyah Duffey: We’re so valuable.

[00:50:44] Jenny Swisher: Yeah, for sure. I know the other day I was like, I called my mom who’s 76 and I’m like, we need something sewn. And she’s like, you don’t know how? And I’m like, no, I don’t know how to sew. I mean, I do know how to cook, but I’ve had to teach myself. Right. So that’s right. Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here.

[00:50:58] Jenny Swisher: I, again, you guys I’ll link everything up in the show notes. This may not be the last time you hear from her. I always love to bring experts like this into my community. So, um, thank you guys so much for tuning in and until next time. Talk soon.